[cornsnakesalive]

Originally Posted by salzar

hey guys we need to concider mendelism.
first we have to establish that both snakes we in fact albinos, and not just hybrid, if the parents had just a wisp of color in there genes then a hybrid would result,
secontly albino to albino will not always produce an albino.
thirdly a TRUE ALBINO WILL ALWAYS HAVE PINKskin and eyes , if the eyes are not pink but are hazel or a grey golor it is a dilute , or a hybrid dilute. there are some horses that when bred to a overo colored horse and the mare is also a overo with the same resessive gene, then the resulting foal will be BORN DEAD. do not mix colors of snakes with this resessive gene it me have the same bad results.
I will try to find out more info on mendemism
hope this helps. beautiful snake!!!!

I do not completely agree with most of this statement. Hybrids are the mixing of different subspecies, such as an Amel Eastern X San Francisco. I think most people would definitely consider this a hybrid breeding. The next generation from this type of breeding, would produce an Amel that is homo for “Amel Eastern“, and some of them would be more SF like. These offspring could be bred back to a SF, and eventually an Amel SF could be produced, but they would by hybrids between the Easterns and SF. This is what I was talking about, that Basement Breeders have been doing with all species of snakes for 30 years.

If we breed an Amel Red Sided X Anery Red Sided, then we will eventually be able to produce Snow Red Sides, that are not hybrids. The same is true if we breed an Amel Eastern or any other local of Amel, X Hypo from the same subspecies. Some of the so called Amels such as the Nebraskas, have a “wisp” of color” when compare to the Iowas, but since they are from the same subspecies a breeding between the two that produces NORMALS is not a hybrid breeding, just a breeding between two incompatible genes. The fact that they come from different states means nothing because the are from the same subspecies. Their names will keep them separate now that they have proven to be incapable.

If you have been to a Snake show, you know how many different types of people are interested in keeping snakes. Some do not have any problem creating a new “Amel” the hybrid way, and sell them as pure stock, because pure is better right? and Hybrids are dirty nasty creatures that aren’t worth a dime, NOT! It is very unfortunate that this way of thinking is prevalent which is the cause of most basement type breedings instead of Hybrid info being passed on. This info may never be discovered and gets lost in time. There seems to be a lot more Amels subspecies of Garters than you would expect, so are some of them actually Amel Checkered hybrids? I bet some of them are, but then others such as Otis’s, wild caught Amel are most likely new genes and not hybrids. Considering the micro climates that some locals of Garters live in, it is very possible that may of the different locals of Amels are in fact different genes and not created by hybridization. It all comes down to indisputable statements of fact. Otis statements are sound and nobody disputes them, but how sound are statements we see that state a line comes from “Wild Caught Stock”, with no specifies that happened 20 year ago? Where are the new Amels from in-breeding in captivity? There definitely should have been some genes discovered this way, but they are all listed as coming from wild caught stock.

The hybrid debate is always split, just like Dems and Reps. Is there anything wrong with creating new morphs by hybridization? I personally do not think so, as long as this info is passed on. For some reason, hybrids are considered superior to pure strains in most other breeding programs, but in the Snake World, hybrid is a dirty word. I mean, come on, wouldn’t it be cool if there were Amel SF or Amel Puget Sounds? To some, this is treason, but most purest rarely only breed local specific subspecies of the NORMAL phase. Almost all purest want their cake and eat it too. They love the mutant genes, but also want pure Garters. This is very possible with some lines, but in time, this becomes less and less important, and not likely to be the case.

I can see both sides of the issue. If you want Pure Garters that are also a mutant, then here is one right here with very specific local data. If you want Snow Red Sideds, then you can make them, but what about Easterns that are from Florida compared to the ones from Canada. Even though they are the same subspecies, is this what the purest really are wanting? I would think a purest would be more local specific, than this.

There are certainly “FATAL” genes that have been discovered in other animals like the Overo example. I bred donkeys too, and spot to spot breedings are fatal if double homos are produced, exactly like the Overos. Since the Spot gene is dominant, it only takes one copy to produce a Spotted Donkey, so het Spots are what we see. In Corns we have identified a recessive gene that causes Star Gazing. If you bred two hets together, 1 in 4 will have this fatal condition.

The mixing of recessive genes in snakes has not resulted in producing offspring with fatal conditions, except for a few rare circumstances. My main interest breeding snakes is trying to produce a new mutant gene by combining different genes, such as Amel and Anery will make Snows. This has been done for many years, with almost all different species of snakes and very few fatal genes have been discovered. The mixing of genes is not the cause of fatal genes, but this is how they get discovered, just like Amels. If there are no fatal recessive genes in a line, then they can not be matched up from thin air by in-breeding. They either exist in a line, or they do not.

Eye color is certainly a good indication of different genes. Most hypos have normal eyes, but the more extreme ones can have ruby eyes that can be mistaken for Amels. When you start stacking genes, such as Caramel Garter X Anery Garter, it can effect the eye color as well in double homo Garters. Dilutes are similar to Hypos, but not interchangeable. Hypos usually only reduce the melanin in Snakes, but Dilutes can have an effect on all of the colors. Dilutes are more like mixing white paint with other colors. Dilutes reduce the shade of all of the colors and change black to a bluish color, while most hypos just reduce the intensity of black coloration.


Hybrids are the mixing of different subspecies not the mixing of incapable genes from the same subspecies. From Scott’s site, there are seven potentially different mutant genes listed as Easterns plus the five Amels. Any of them can be combine to produce pure Easterns. Problems can occur if we start calling different combos by the same name. For example, Scott has Snow Easterns listed, that are from an Amel X Mel breeding. This is not the traditional genes that are called “Snows” in all other species of snakes. Snows are generally a combo of Amel and Anery. What will happen when an Anery Eastern is discovered and a true Snow Eastern is produced? A Snow Eastern (Amel Mel) bred to a potential “Snow” Eastern (Amel Anery) would not result in Snow offspring but Amels het Anery and Mel.