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Cazador · 02-15-2007, 06:26 PM

Marian,
Congrats on the weight gain! That's a great sign, and since they haven't been brumated recently, I think it's very revealing about the effect the parasites were having. Really fantastic news!!! Also, if you look closely, each snake has its vertebral scale completely colored, and about 1/2 of each paravertebral scale is colored. They all seem to have small eyes (characteristic of T. ordinoides), and the internasal scales on the male seem to be longer than the prefrontals (behind the internasals; characteristic of T. ordinoides). However, the male also seems to have the most pointed head (characteristic of T. sirtalis pickeringii). The head shape of the girls seems to be much less triangular (like T. ordinoides). As you'll see in the file I'll send you, T. ordinoides have 16-20 maxillary teeth, and T.s. pickeringii have 20-26. I have some dead ones in the freezer that I can examine. I think the dorsal scale counts of 17 were VERY revealing, though.

All,
I've pretty much plagiarized the distinguishing characteristics, life history, ecology, etc. for T. sirtalis and T. ordinoides from two snake ID books (Rossman et al.'s 1991 The Garter Snakes and Western Reptiles and Amphibians 3rd Ed. by Robert C. Stebbins) and will send the files to Mikm, Kitkat, GarterGuy, GarterKing, and anyone else that requests a copy (via PM). Since plagiarism is frowned upon, I don't want to post the file onto our care sheets, but I'd be happy to provide individual copies to anyone who asks.
Rick

P.S. The head shots are very useful, and if you posted a good side view around midbody from slightly above the snake (~35 degree angle), we could probably help with your scale counts, too. A nice side view from slightly below the head will reveal the number of upper and lower labials. These nice, clear pictures are very helpful.

02-15-2007, 06:26 PM	#28 (permalink)
Cazador Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,609 Country:	Re: PUGET Update (Vet Visit & more ;)) Marian, Congrats on the weight gain! That's a great sign, and since they haven't been brumated recently, I think it's very revealing about the effect the parasites were having. Really fantastic news!!! Also, if you look closely, each snake has its vertebral scale completely colored, and about 1/2 of each paravertebral scale is colored. They all seem to have small eyes (characteristic of T. ordinoides), and the internasal scales on the male seem to be longer than the prefrontals (behind the internasals; characteristic of T. ordinoides). However, the male also seems to have the most pointed head (characteristic of T. sirtalis pickeringii). The head shape of the girls seems to be much less triangular (like T. ordinoides). As you'll see in the file I'll send you, T. ordinoides have 16-20 maxillary teeth, and T.s. pickeringii have 20-26. I have some dead ones in the freezer that I can examine. I think the dorsal scale counts of 17 were VERY revealing, though. All, I've pretty much plagiarized the distinguishing characteristics, life history, ecology, etc. for T. sirtalis and T. ordinoides from two snake ID books (Rossman et al.'s 1991 The Garter Snakes and Western Reptiles and Amphibians 3rd Ed. by Robert C. Stebbins) and will send the files to Mikm, Kitkat, GarterGuy, GarterKing, and anyone else that requests a copy (via PM). Since plagiarism is frowned upon, I don't want to post the file onto our care sheets, but I'd be happy to provide individual copies to anyone who asks. Rick P.S. The head shots are very useful, and if you posted a good side view around midbody from slightly above the snake (~35 degree angle), we could probably help with your scale counts, too. A nice side view from slightly below the head will reveal the number of upper and lower labials. These nice, clear pictures are very helpful.