Must I hibernate them for breeding?

[drache]

Originally Posted by Stefan-A

My point was, is it really rest? In the wild, a significant portion of them die during hibernation. Wouldn't that indicate that it jeopardizes their health? In the wild, it's often just a necessary evil.

In humans, I'd rather compare it to fasting, than to rest. Puts a great deal of strain on the systems.

I was thinking of fasting as one parallel
and yes it can be a bit of a strain on an already deficient organism, but then again it can clear out disease at times
also I was thinking of the research that's been done with seasonal sleep cycles (at Stamford Univ.). There is some evidence that humans that sleep seasonally (longer hours in winter) have better functioning immune systems (lower incidence of certain illnesses)
I also wonder whether the ones that die during the winter months are the aged and otherwise frail (just like in human populations). Perhaps some of them are just in the wrong part of the den.
brumation may be primarily a survival strategy, but when it has become part of a species cycles over many generations, I imagine that it has gotten tied in with more than just their reproductive cycles, even though that may be the most obvious.
there is so much we don't know . . .

[Stefan-A]

Originally Posted by drache

there is so much we don't know . . .

My point exactly. I for one would like to see some concrete "proof" that the snake actually benefits from the process.

In the wild, if I remember correctly, up to 1/3 - 1/2 of the snakes may die during hibernation, with young snakes having a higher mortality rate than older ones.

[adamanteus]

To answer the original question....no, hibernation is not essential for breeding. However, the period of cold/inactivity triggers the production of sex cells, so the chances of a successful mating are higher in a snake that has been hibernated.

[drache]

Originally Posted by Stefan-A

My point exactly. I for one would like to see some concrete "proof" that the snake actually benefits from the process.

In the wild, if I remember correctly, up to 1/3 - 1/2 of the snakes may die during hibernation, with young snakes having a higher mortality rate than older ones.

I had no idea the numbers were this high
I must have totally passed over that in my reading

[Stefan-A]

Like I said: if I remember correctly. Anyway, that definitely wasn't something like an average mortality rate.


Just for comparison, according to the wikipedia article on Vipera berus, 15% of adults and 30-40% of juveniles die during hibernation. Of course, this is a different species, but both are very tolerant to cold climates.

[Snaky]

Well, I know quite some breeders who hibernate their snakes and even the newborns. Some hibernate very late newborns even directly. They still have a very low mortality rate on those and say the hibernation has a good effect on their eating. Normally late newborns are problem feeders from the beginning, which make's them very weak. But the hibernation is apparently naturally to them.

Maybe it can't be taken as proof, but snakes of the same species tend to live longer if they're hibernated. This is also something from keepers, not scientific. But maybe somebody knows about some studies about it?

PS: This will probably be the last post before I go on holiday, till over a couple of weeks

[Stefan-A]

I think this might be a case where quality vs. quantity can be compared. Some T.s.parietalis populations spend around 8 months of the year in hibernation and only get a couple of months of "growth period" each year. Wouldn't be surprised if spending 2/3 of your life in hibernation would let you live a bit longer. Not 3 times as long, though.

Enjoy your holiday.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I have had wanderings for many years. they do fine without hibernating...however the coold down cycle stimulates the reproductive cycle...without it, wandering pretty much won't breed. Some of the garters from more temerate climates don't need a big cool down period, just shorter light hours and slightly cooler temps...

[LushLulu85]

Originally Posted by Stefan-A

Like I said: if I remember correctly. Anyway, that definitely wasn't something like an average mortality rate.


Just for comparison, according to the wikipedia article on Vipera berus, 15% of adults and 30-40% of juveniles die during hibernation. Of course, this is a different species, but both are very tolerant to cold climates.

just recognised these stats. baced on the stats of a Adder (Vipera Berus) from sweeden where they hibernate for 8-9 months. heres the link...
Vipera berus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia its under behavior

[LushLulu85]

i was just thinking(doesn't happen often) the stats for snakes dying during hibernation, is that not mostly from preditor attacks?