Anyone ever cross tetrataenia with blotched ssp. (infernalis, concinnus, parietalis)

[G-natrix]

I've been around the politics of tetrataenia a fair bit and I have to agree with Phillip Blais on the status of the snake. I don't know how HE knows what he knows, but he gets it just about right. Read it here:

The San Francisco Garter Snake in Canada - gartersnake.info

[Bay_area]

Originally Posted by G-natrix

I've been around the politics of tetrataenia a fair bit and I have to agree with Phillip Blais on the status of the snake. I don't know how HE knows what he knows, but he gets it just about right. Read it here:

The San Francisco Garter Snake in Canada - gartersnake.info

Yes, the article is pretty accurate. Crystal Springs Resevoir is a well guarded place. The only way to go in there is with a guided hike with Rangers @ front & the rear making sure no one bothers any of the wildlife. I do not think there is a large problem with poachers as the article said. I do know some people that, lets say, not completely legal when it comes to what they have in their collection. I do not know anyone that is willing to poach SF Garters!
One problem that was not addressed in the article, was the populations on private property. People that own the property that have existing populations do not want the government agencies to know about them. The property owners are afraid that if it becomes public information there will be restrictions put on what they can do with their own property. If a farmer has a pond the contains red legged frogs & SF Garters and he wants to plant pumpkins, he might be forbidin to do so. Believe me, try & get permission to look, I have been told this before.

[G-natrix]

Of course the sad thing is that pumpkins are a pretty mild insult to the landscape out there -- in fact, they probably keep the pumpkin-driven economy of Half Moon Bay afloat & therefore may help to keep farmers going & thus stave off development (which WOULD be bad for the frog & the snake). That part of the coast is already pretty pumpkin-y & yet it would be hard to imagine the red-legged frogs existing at a higher density than they already are out there. As it stands they're in virtually every pond or ditch & the few bigger reservoirs that have bullfrogs share them with red-legged frogs (some kind of uneasy peace I assume). The Ano Nuevo pond supports a good population of T.s. tetrataenia & is one of the few spots on that stretch of coast that has a healthy population of bullfrogs, so I don't really see the threat there. Between State Parks and Peninsula Land Trust and the Coast Dairy/Cloverdale preserve and Mid-Peninsula Open Space District the coast is pretty tightly sewn up preservation-wise. Finally, I would think the best way to stave off poachers would be for the government to embark on a massive captive breeding program and flood the market with tets -- in fact, they should give them away for free. That would suck for people who like tets because they're rare, but that's THEIR problem. It would be great for all of us who like tets because they're pretty.

[ssssnakeluvr]

I would volunteer for the massive captive breeding prgram for the government....

[zooplan]

When ´tetrataenia breeding is going on like the last few yaers, we can float the US market with snakes from Europe, but without fresh blood
the population may decline again as well.
Prices went down from more than 500€ in the late 1990´th to less than 130€ now and are still decreasing.

[anji1971]

[quote=G-natrix;30731] .....and flood the market with tets -- in fact, they should give them away for free.......

Hey, free snakes are the only kind I'm allowed to have for a while, so it sounds great to me!!!! especially if I could get one as pretty as tetrataenia!!!

[Bay_area]

Originally Posted by G-natrix

Finally, I would think the best way to stave off poachers would be for the government to embark on a massive captive breeding program and flood the market with tets -- in fact, they should give them away for free. That would suck for people who like tets because they're rare, but that's THEIR problem. It would be great for all of us who like tets because they're pretty.

that sounds like my step daughters aurgument for marijuanaLOL!

Sounds like you know the area pretty good G-natrix, do you live in Nor*Cal?

I think that the government should allow some type of captive breeding & release program to where the habitat has been restored. They did that with the condors, why not snakes? Anyhow, I already know their response to such a program.

[RZL36]

I would be into New Jersey letting me release northern pine babies (which I totally don't have). I don't get how a perfectly healthy captive bred snake, supplementing a threatened wild population, could adversely impact the environment. Maybe I should just reach out to the state and ask if they could give me some permissions. I would handle it from there.

As for hybridization of snakes, it doesn't bother me. I think it would be cool to make things that have never been done before. Subspecies intergrade all the time in the wild.

I personally think breeding my Florida blues with my marcianus (just got at Hamburg. Got a super pretty radix too) could produce some really pretty specimens. I'm not looking to make a fortune off of them. I just want to try something and see what happens. I'll sell what I can for dirt cheap and then release the rest. I'm not seeing a downside. There are plenty of minnows to eat and our snake population went from me seeing a garter snake once a week, to me not seeing one in 8 years.

[zooplan]

The government needs more time to develope new ideas.
Much more than people need for the same.
While they are developing it would be nice, useful, practical.....
to build up a strong and save population here.
European breeding had to start from a very small group of inbred specimens.