hmm?? Eastern Sound blues lol.

[drache]

I saw one that supposedly came from North Carolina.

maybe they bought it from Scott
I've got some plains garters that came from NC

[ConcinnusMan]

That's not what I meant. It was a WC specimen.

[drache]

by definition florida blue easterns would be from florida - I kind of doubt they range north that far

[Artic Exotics]

hmm... yeah I dont know where these two are from specifically, as they were sold to me as puget sound blues, and were shipped from California... Im definitely not the ID expert here, I just guessed they were a blue eastern of some sort. Couldnt tell ya if they were from florida or not.

[ConcinnusMan]

Thanks rhea. Your statement prompted me to do some research on the confusion and I'm not so confused any more. similis is a blue-striped garter only found in florida. I saw some true pictures of that snake. I also learned that florida has easterns with some degree of bluing, but they still look like easterns.

Anyone purchasing "florida blue garters" better make sure what they are getting. If it's a blue eastern they want, (T.sirtalis sirtalis) or a "florida blue striped garter" (T. sirtalis similis) because there is definitely a difference. Watch your step and make sure you don't end up with the wrong snake. You could conceivably even end up with a puget, or try to buy a puget (t.sirtalis pickeringii) and end up with similis. I can definitely see how that could happen. While ALL of these snakes are the same species, and some overlap in range, resulting in intergrades, they aren't true hybrids since they are all sirtalis. Deliberate or accidental crossing of ssp's happens in captivity as well.

Shannon purchased a "concinnus" a while back at a show (named rainbow man) but It sure as heck looked like a lot like fitchii's found in Oregon, right on the fringes of concinnus' range as you head east along the columbia river.(natural intergrades occur there too) Furthermore, in the SE portion of the puget's range, even "pure" pugets tend to not be blue, but look more like a concinnus intergrade even though that is not necessarily the case.

All these mentioned ssp's should be looked at with scrutiny if you're looking to buy a specific subspecies, I guess, is the point I'm trying to get across. Know your subspecies, and know the natural variations that can occur. If you can't quite pin it down, (the I.D.) it just might be a ssp cross, or worse, a hybrid. Where garters are concerned, I definitely don't approve of the practice of intentionally crossing species (T.radix X T. sirtalis for example) We need to let breeders know we don't approve by NOT buying questionable snakes, no matter how pretty or "neat" they can be.

hmm... yeah I dont know where these two are from specifically, as they were sold to me as puget sound blues, and were shipped from California... Im definitely not the ID expert here, I just guessed they were a blue eastern of some sort. Couldnt tell ya if they were from florida or not.

wouldn't happen to have any pics would you?

[drache]

just something else to consider:
of the garters I've personally seen, the similis and the pickeringi seem to be more blue, whereas the florida blue sirtalis will generally grow larger; I seem to recall reading somewhere that the florida blues grow larger than other easterns even

[Artic Exotics]

Where garters are concerned, I definitely don't approve of the practice of intentionally crossing species (T.radix X T. sirtalis for example) We need to let breeders know we don't approve by NOT buying questionable snakes, no matter how pretty or "neat" they can be.

Aye yes I would agree, I suppose I fell prey to the folly of not getting a picture first. I was assured these were pugets several times by the cat I got them from, and he lived on the west coast, and seemed to know a good bit about their care (like the thiamine thing). So i figured he knew his stuff. It just didn't happen to be the case, and that is why I asked the experts here.

[ConcinnusMan]

just something else to consider:
of the garters I've personally seen, the similis and the pickeringi seem to be more blue, whereas the florida blue sirtalis will generally grow larger; I seem to recall reading somewhere that the florida blues grow larger than other easterns even

Not to mention, with blue easterns, the stripes usually aren't blue, especially the dorsal. Some pickeringii have no blue at all and with exception of red spots on some, they don't have a patterned dorsal. No spots. Just dark and solid.

[Brewster320]

are there blue easterns elsewhere? somebody else answer that

There is a area of my city were all the Easterns have atleast some blue to them, but I've seen a few with extreme amount of blue. Last summer I saw a DOR female that had neon blue checkering and a neon blue stripe going th entire length of the body, with a little blue on the face. I know its not as extreme as the blues in Florida but its pretty good for coming as far North as Massachusetts. Also I'm sure that with selective breeding you could increase the blue. One of my garters is from this area, he's got blue checkering and shows a decent amount of blue. It shows best after a shed, and considering that ones in shed now I'll try to get some pictures if you'd all like when he sheds.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I seriously wish people would quit calling easterns "florida blue". I don't care how blue an eastern is, it is not T.s. similis.

you are confused my dear.... the easterns ARE the florida blues. You are not supposed to inlucde florida in the name of t.s.similis. Similis is called the Bluestriped Garter.... not Florida Bluestriped Garter. The easterns are called "florida blue" because they are a specific locality/look to them that very clearly distinguishes them from other easterns, EVEN IF that particular animal is not very blue. so people are correct in calling the easterns florida blues.