Bad Match Breeding

[guidofatherof5]

A couple years ago I was given the opportunity to adopt 3 Checkered Garter snakes(T. marcianus) 1-adult albino female, 2-males(1 albino and 1 albino het. normal)
Since the adoption 2 litters of snakes have been born with the normal/het being the male.
Both groups of babies have struggled from birth and I've lost many(75%) of them to failure to thrive.
I think I will be removing the normal het. male from the enclosure. Not sure their will be anymore breeding as the albino male has never shown any interest.
Does it sound like I have enough evidence to call this a bad match?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

are these the ones that produced bumblebee and the other pastels? I have had similar experiences with certain groups of checkereds and and I split mine up so that the ones that I have now are all unrelated. I think that the albino checkered line is so heavily inbred that this is becoming too common of an occurrence. The marcianus currently in captivity really need some fresh genes injected. They are supposed to have large, robust, thriving litters and lately, we are seeing more and more of them having just a couple babies. It does look like my amel female is gravid, she is quite a robust snakes, we will see how that goes! I have a lot of friends at the local shows who many of them have a few checkereds, and even from them I am getting reports that the clutches are small. I just know it's from the albinos not being outcrossed. People buy a pair of babies because they are cheap, then grow them up and breed them like rabbits, and the process just keeps getting repeated.

[guidofatherof5]

are these the ones that produced bumblebee and the other pastels?

Yes they are. I can't say I have a great eater in the two litters. They also have trouble with their sheds most of the time. Most were very slow to switch to worms and still give me fits at feeding time. I never know when one will go off food for good.
The only saving grace might be the fact I have a unrelated male that should be at breeding age next year.

[infernalis]

are these the ones that produced bumblebee and the other pastels? I have had similar experiences with certain groups of checkereds and and I split mine up so that the ones that I have now are all unrelated. I think that the albino checkered line is so heavily inbred that this is becoming too common of an occurrence. The marcianus currently in captivity really need some fresh genes injected. They are supposed to have large, robust, thriving litters and lately, we are seeing more and more of them having just a couple babies. It does look like my amel female is gravid, she is quite a robust snakes, we will see how that goes! I have a lot of friends at the local shows who many of them have a few checkereds, and even from them I am getting reports that the clutches are small. I just know it's from the albinos not being outcrossed. People buy a pair of babies because they are cheap, then grow them up and breed them like rabbits, and the process just keeps getting repeated.

I see what you are describing happening to other morphs as well.

A typical scenario... Person "A" will buy a "pair" from a breeder, this "pair" is often siblings. Then person "A" will raise the pair up and breed them, along comes person "B" and purchases a "pair from person "A" raises them up and breeds them, the process repeats and suddenly we have a bunch of bug eyed morphs circulating.

One has to remember that many of those morphs are already F2+ at the time of initial purchase, After all if one wants to ensure maximum (as an example) Snows in a litter it's an easy way out to breed snows to snows.

If you want a "clean" snow then you would breed an Anery to an albino, the resulting litter will produce "minimal" snows, but they will be clean.

That would be fine if you could ask $1000 each for the one or two snows produced, but the reality of it is that no one will pay that price, so the next easier step would be to pair up 2 snows and produce many, then sell them at $100 each. the trend continues...

[d_virginiana]

I've been wondering what the general ideas on sibling/sibling or sibling/parent pairings for garters were. I mean, I know they do stuff like that to purebred dogs, but on the flipside that's why those dogs have so many health issues..
So, is it acceptable to do that as long as someone doesn't do it continually and makes sure to bring in fresh genes fairly often, or is it just a bad idea in general?
Just curious. That's not even an option for me since mine are at least a year away from breeding and totally unrelated, but it's an interesting topic.

[RedSidedSPR]

It is, and I dont think anythings wrong with it... Id like to know too

[infernalis]

It's not too bad for a couple generations, but when it happens over and over it begins to produce animals with defects that are undesirable.

and for the record.. Albinism is considered to be a defect by many. It is an inability to produce melanin.

[RedSidedSPR]

Then why do so many strive to make them?

[infernalis]

Then why do so many strive to make them?

Mankind's desire to posses the unusual.

As long as there are buyers, breeders will produce.

[RedSidedSPR]

Yeah...
It's weird. Its, with everything, "the morph". Most common. People who know nothing about that stuff know what an albino is. Yet, it's a defect. Seems weird.

Although, wouldn't that make melanistics and stuff defects too?