anytime girls!!!

[Odie]

Congratulations, From Oregon, Otis They look mighty fine mon

[otis lee]

she had all hets
2 or 3 slugs,
1 sm one that did not make it,think it did not clear its lungs,
the last 1 was a big still born,probly from all the pushing,
aaaaannnnndddddd
13 perfect baby hets,
and 1 more that has a sm kink/bump on its neck and its left eye is smaller.
some ate cut worms 2 hours after birth!!!thanks for all the great replys!!!

[Cazador]

It's about darn time that she popped . I bet she feels a LOT better now. Nice work with the camera, too.

Rick

[otis lee]

they all ate worms!!!on monday.

[cornsnakesalive]

Originally Posted by KITKAT

HOWEVER... I have a current theory that perhaps some of the garters that are identified as albinos, are not albinos. Bear with me...

Scott Felzer, for example, has two strains of "albino". Yet, when one strain is bred to the other, non-albinos are produced.

I assume he has identified his two strains as albino because they have red/pink eyes, as well as lighter body color. However, there is another gene that can make red eyes in some animals (such as mice). This gene is called "Dilute".

(Which is what I suspect is happening to Felzer's two "albino" strains, when bred to each other).

Of course, since ODNR thinks I should not be allowed to ever own a plains garter, even though the source is provable as non-Ohio... I guess I'll never get to experiment to see if I can prove my theory!

Hello Thamnophis.com,
I just began looking into Garter morphs due to a Den I found on my property. I also breed Corn Snake Morphs, and we have proven 15 mutant genes at this time, so the genetics of Garters interest me. Much of what we have learned about Corn Snake genes, can be applied to Garters as well.

I found it odd that nobody I emailed had any knowledge of any test breedings between the different lines of Albinos, not even Felzer. I have a different opinion about the reason for the lack of Amels in the litter. It is extremely possible that two different non-compatible lines of Amels were opposite each other. Are any of the Amel Garters compatible, or are they all non-combatable. How about a Schuett and Amel Eastern, which I believe this breeding may be a mix of. Are the Schuett’s compatible with the Amel Easterns. If no test have been done, it could certainly go either way, unless the history of the lines is tied somehow.

In Boas, two different Amel lines have proven to be non-combatable, but both are amels. A Sharp Strain Albino Boa X Kahl Albino Boa breeding will result in Normals het for both Albino genes. In Corns we now have six non-compatible hypos. That is right six, and we have proven them out with test breedings. Breed any two of the six together, even though they are of a hypo phenotype, and you will produce NORMALS.

Another possibility with this litter are poor odds. I once produced 10 Amels out of 11 eggs that hatched from a Het Amel X Same breeding. It is certainly possible to produced 11 Normals out of a Het X Same breeding as well.

Some very interesting eye colors have been popping up in double and triple homo Corns. Eye colors that can be mistaken for Amels eyes, ruby eyes, blue eyes, yellow eyes and so forth. Some double stacked hypo genes have ruby eyes as well, but even the most extreme of the hypos eyes can not be mistaken for an Amels.

I think you guys need to start an Amel Test Breeding Project like we did with the hypos. Our Hypo Test Breeding Project took us from two proven hypos to six in two years. All we had to do, is ship different types of hypos to others that could do testing. Through cooperative efforts, most testing was done in the first year. The only difference I see is that most of the different Amel locals in Garters are also different subspecies, so it may not be knowledge that everybody believes is needed.

How do you know, that some of the Albino Garter snake subspecies genes, are not he result of “Basement Breeders“? Almost all Amel Gophers, and Amel Kings are a result of hybridization. This was done many years ago, when morphs came flying at us almost every year. There are certainly different non-combatable lines of some Amel Kings, but most were created in the 80’s. Amel California King Snakes have two different lines of non-compatible Amel genes, so the compatibility or non-compatibility of any Amel gene in Garters, will not necessarily prove if they are hybrids or not, but it will help to make sure the different lines are kept separate for breeding purposes. Amel Corns and Amel Nelsons are compatible, but they were not the result of hybridization. The probably just had a common ancestor several thousands of year ago.

I really don’t know anything about the origins of the different lines of Amels in Garters, and most have a wild caught story. It is certainly very possible for many wild caught lines of Amels to be discovered due to their breeding habits, but how sound are the wild caught stories. Are they from first hand knowledge that has been passed down. Who were the first to produce a certain Amel subspecies anyway? If you can not answer that question, we really don’t know do we.

Wouldn’t a Garter Snake Registry be NICE!

[snakeman]

Almost all of the w/c albino garters I have known to exist were adults.I have not heard of too many albino babies being caught.I have no idea which eastern strains are compatable.I think there are 5 strains right now.I think the plains garter has 3.I know two are not compatable.The nebraska and iowa.

[cornsnakesalive]

Originally Posted by snakeman

Almost all of the w/c albino garters I have known to exist were adults.I have not heard of too many albino babies being caught.I have no idea which eastern strains are compatable.I think there are 5 strains right now.I think the plains garter has 3.I know two are not compatable.The nebraska and iowa.

I saw that when I read Scott’s site more toughly. The photo of the two different Amels and Snows was interesting. Did one “mask” the other, such as Homo Nebraska, Iowa and Anery look like an Iowa Snow? The Iowa seems more extreme. I think the Nebraska Amel looks like some extreme hypos in other species. I would love to see one in person.

I guess Scott’s email was referring t the Easterns, because he tested out these two. When I read the Christmas write up, I couldn’t tell if they were a different gene, or a more colorful line of Iowa or Nebraska. Which double het for snow female did the line come from, Iowa or Nebraska, or another line?

The Plains Garter group is a great subspecies. There are a lot of genes to combine to make double homo morphs and beyond.

[otis lee]

the albino checkered is giving birth today !!80%albino sofar.i m getting some bad one.i did get pics of them coming out of her and will post pics and #s!!!!!!!!!!!!

[salzar]

hey guys we need to concider mendelism.
first we have to establish that both snakes we in fact albinos, and not just hybrid, if the parents had just a wisp of color in there genes then a hybrid would result,
secontly albino to albino will not always produce an albino.
thirdly a TRUE ALBINO WILL ALWAYS HAVE PINKskin and eyes , if the eyes are not pink but are hazel or a grey golor it is a dilute , or a hybrid dilute. there are some horses that when bred to a overo colored horse and the mare is also a overo with the same resessive gene, then the resulting foal will be BORN DEAD. do not mix colors of snakes with this resessive gene it me have the same bad results.
I will try to find out more info on mendemism
hope this helps. beautiful snake!!!!

[KITKAT]

Originally Posted by salzar

hey guys we need to concider mendelism.
first we have to establish that both snakes we in fact albinos, and not just hybrid, if the parents had just a wisp of color in there genes then a hybrid would result,
secontly albino to albino will not always produce an albino.
thirdly a TRUE ALBINO WILL ALWAYS HAVE PINKskin and eyes , if the eyes are not pink but are hazel or a grey golor it is a dilute , or a hybrid dilute. there are some horses that when bred to a overo colored horse and the mare is also a overo with the same resessive gene, then the resulting foal will be BORN DEAD. do not mix colors of snakes with this resessive gene it me have the same bad results.
I will try to find out more info on mendemism
hope this helps. beautiful snake!!!!

Sorry, but I disagree. Albino x albino always produces albino. However, there are other reasons for a pink eye than albino, and in those cases, you may have something that APPEARS to be albino but is not.

Secondly, you cannot have "a wisp of color" in there. The albino gene BLOCKS the color, but the color is still there.

Third, yes, there are certain genetic traits that can be lethal, which means when you get two copies of the same gene in the allele (gene pair), then the offspring will be born dead. But albino is not lethal in snakes (nor in many other genera).