Catch / Keep / Release?

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

My concern is definitely for the snake. Although, I do occasionally catch and keep WC's, I never release animals once they have been in my keeping for over a month; this is my quarantine period - newcomers do not come in contact with my collection. I usually make my decision to keep or release within 2 weeks of the catch. I figure if it hasn't eaten yet (and I have had new WC's eat the second day!), it's not going to eat what I feed it, or it just won't eat in captivity.

If you are releasing some acclimated WC's just so you can acquire a couple of new babies (because they are cute when they are little), I totally frown on that! Hope I haven't misunderstood.

I have a small WC population of snakes: Northwestern Ring-necked, Sharp-tailed, Oregon Garter, Coast Garter, San Diego Gopher, and a CA King. In all my keeping of WC's, I have had only one refuse to eat - it starved to death (I tried everything!), and I have had to release perhaps 3 or 4 simply due to eating problems. I currently have a Night Snake, which I fear may also starve.

I am learning my lesson the hard way. Don't mess with animals that are known for being difficult! ...or from San Diego (over 757 miles away!)
Please know that I am wallowing in regret with the catch of my Night Snake.

I should also mention that even if a snake has only been captive a month, it may still have difficulty bouncing back into the wild. Stress alone can interfere with immunities. And who knows who's moved in while the snake was away. A few competing snakes may have encroached on its previous hunting grounds - assuming release is to same locale where found. If the animal is released in a different locality, forget any good chances of survival. A lot of releases lose out to more vigorous competition (no "easy street" terrarium vacation!). This is the same tragedy that befalls all those well-intended rattlesnake relocations. Survival statistics for these poor fellows are very sad indeed.

Anyways, that's my sermon!

All the luck!

Steven

[EdgyExoticReptiles]

iris ones are a little more exspensive but are 2x stronger

Originally Posted by Zephyr

Try sterilite bins. Sturdy and affordable.

[Loren]

Steven- what have you tried to feed the night snake?
I have had success with small fence lizards and small pacific treefrogs. I actually feed them as frozen/thawed.
I leave them in the cage overnight along the perimeter, and they almost always are gone in the morning.
Night snakes can swallow fairly large meals too, so its ok if the meals are on the big side. They make it fit.

[dashnu]

Originally Posted by Steven@HumboldtHerps

If you are releasing some acclimated WC's just so you can acquire a couple of new babies (because they are cute when they are little), I totally frown on that! Hope I haven't misunderstood.

Yea, understood. I am a sucker when it comes to my two little daughters . Truth be told this is how I got into the hobby. I fully agree and looking at the situation this is the _wrong_ reason to let them back.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Originally Posted by Loren

Steven- what have you tried to feed the night snake?
I have had success with small fence lizards and small pacific treefrogs. I actually feed them as frozen/thawed.
I leave them in the cage overnight along the perimeter, and they almost always are gone in the morning.
Night snakes can swallow fairly large meals too, so its ok if the meals are on the big side. They make it fit.

So you feed them prekilled? MY Hypsiglena is probably just intimidated by anything that moves. I have tried a live TINY fence lizard, alligator lizard, anole, long-tailed grass lizard, and slender salamander (all babies); today I caught a baby skink - I am currently anticipating... I'll try freezing something next. Maybe since they are night-feeders, being adapted to slightly cooler temps, they prefer incapacitated food (as inperhaps too clammy to move?); then they give it a mildly toxic salivary chew and down the hatch?!

Will see what happens...Thanks

[Loren]

Originally Posted by Steven@HumboldtHerps

So you feed them prekilled?

Yes, thats actually been my standard for lizards and frogs for a few years now, mostly for the reason of hoping to avoid internal and external parasite issues. Not sure if I have really even tried live with them, but I have had them for a couple years. I just really hate putting live wc anything in with a long term captive.
Also, Mine both came from central ca, so if yours is from so Cal, maybe his feeding preferences are different.
I have found very few snakes that wont take a frozen/thawed lizard or frog just as easily as a live one.
If using a frog, I mist it and the whole area around it to try to make it stay edible a bit longer.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Sorry, it has been a while since I last checked this thread. My San Diego Night Snake ate a Skilton Skink over a week ago. I am now on the quest for Eumeces! CA Dept. of Fish and Game has a catch allowance of 25 at any one time.

Steven

[ssssnakeluvr]

once you take animals into captivity here in Utah it's illegal to release them back to the wild....

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Illegal releases... The laws are likewise in California! Anytime I take the risk of harboring a W/C, I have to face the possibility that it won't eat. I will admit that on a couple occasions I have released W/C's that were no more than a week in captivity. These were all in quarantine and never had contact with one another or any of my C/B's. Personally, I believe such limits could be stretched up to a month, snakes' stress determining. I don't like to volunteer that info, but being a wildlife major with years of herp experience, there are times were you have to take certain chances in order to study certain species (especially behaviorally). Unfortunately, many amateur herpers will take such risks without any forethought as to the animal's specific needs (habitat, diet, etc). Live observation (of course "in the wild" behavior is always the best!) is the method least harmful to the snake if you want to learn behaviors and morphology. You must consider the fact that most of the upper division studies done on snake morphologies usually require the specimen to be dead. For instance, one doctorate paper I read which was done on the Pacific Gopher Snake and its subspecies required hundreds of W/C specimens to be destroyed. Of course this led to a very complete realization as to what all was eaten on a regular basis by one or more populations of this species.

Any time man interferes with nature (this includes captive and/or domesticated pets), the results could be seen as detrimental and often are.... This is often a case of picking the lesser of 2 evils; the multiple deaths of one studied species may yield knowledge (that could not have otherwise been learned) that can help preserve this animal's future. Many successful conservation efforts are a direct result of such studies. Sad, but true.

I currently have 11 native species (all within legal bag limits). I am happy to say they are all feeding. This perhaps puts a chip on my shoulder (LOL!), especially since a few of them rank among the "small, fussy, and difficult to keep".

I believe some of the states with the stricter laws to be in order; the critters need all the protection they can get. I t is too bad that some states policies however incite hypocracy. No take (ZERO!) policies on all herps in certain states often overlook the animals that are constantly being wiped out by development. For every snake that has fallen victim to a bulldozer (happens all the time!), that animal technically could have become someone's pet, or for that matter, become part of a conservation breeding plan...

The controversies never end... Maybe when humans are gone...

Steven

[count dewclaw]

Originally Posted by Steven@HumboldtHerps

No take (ZERO!) policies on all herps in certain states often overlook the animals that are constantly being wiped out by development. For every snake that has fallen victim to a bulldozer (happens all the time!), that animal technically could have become someone's pet, or for that matter, become part of a conservation breeding plan...
Steven

Or how about the ones that are DOR or hit by lawnmowers? We usually get 2-3 garters with the lawnmower each year.