New born rattlers

[adamanteus]

Originally Posted by Stefan-A

James is going to declare this nonsense for sure.

No he isn't. The venom changes in certain snakes as they grow and their diet changes.
I believe the ability to instinctively choose between delivering a 'dry' bite or an envenomated bite is there from birth.
Even with these changes in mind, we have to remember that dead is dead.... The ones with the more potent venom don't kill you more dead than the others!

[Stefan-A]

Originally Posted by adamanteus

Even with these changes in mind, we have to remember that dead is dead.... The ones with the more potent venom don't kill you more dead than the others!

And that's why I think "deadliest" is one of the funnier words. Like "bestest".

[beaniesmommy]

Oh hell no! That is all I can say after seeing those pictures.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Thank you for the update. I wish open-mindedness were more prevalent on this forum sometimes. Stefan and James, I am always impressed by your responses.

I guess it really would depend on the species. I can see how venom would change (especially temporally b/n neonate & adult stages). A change in diet would alter it ontogenetically (You are what you eat!).

Bestestest advice: Don't get bitten by a venomous snake, no matter what its age!

Steve

[dashnu]

Interesting read guys. Good info. In my case I never need to worry about an arm as raw as the one in those photos. No venomous snakes in Maine.

[Bay_area]

The bite from an adult C. organus could kill you! I was just with some people last Sunday that are involved in the studies of the Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes & what they were saying should be coming out soon. Whether the venom components change or not as a rattlesnake grows does not make a difference if an adult bites you, their venom sacks are alot bigger than a baby rattlesnakes. Therefore if an adult bites you, there will be damage or death to the person being bitten. The only deaths from a C. organus in recent years have been from an adult rattlesnake. What happens to a person that is bitten has alot to do with what part of the body that gets bitten & post bite treatment. Bob Norris, who is the upmost authority on the venom of C. organus bites, has told me several times that the bite from one is under rated. Mainly because of the fact that bites are rare compared to C. atrox (Western Diamondback). The C. organus is not as aggressive as other snakes & most bites occure from people trying to handle them, alcohol is ussually involved(by the person, not the snake)

here is a link to an article by Sean Bush on Southern Pacific Bites eMedicine - Snake Envenomation, Rattle : Article by Sean P Bush The Northern Pacific very close relative.

I have personally watched mice get tagged by Northern Pacific Rattlesnakes & are dead in mere seconds. Both adult & juveniles snakes. I have also seen on several occasions where the snake bites & does not release the mouse til it is dead, pumping venom into the mouse the whole time (ussually when more than one snake is in the enclosure).
On a final note... Venomous are not for the average snake keeper, I do want to stress that. Experience with nonvenomous snakes, no matter how long does not justify that getting into "hots"!!! If someone has the desire to keep "hots", I suggest helping someone that already keeps them in a responsible way. Experience goes along way.
Thank you everyone,
Jerry

[adamanteus]

Originally Posted by Bay_area

... Venomous are not for the average snake keeper, I do want to stress that. Experience with nonvenomous snakes, no matter how long does not justify that getting into "hots"!!! If someone has the desire to keep "hots", I suggest helping someone that already keeps them in a responsible way. Experience goes along way.
Thank you everyone,
Jerry

Very wise words from Jerry there. Unless you have a particular interest or special reason to keep venomous snakes, they're best left alone. You only get one mistake!

[Lumpy]

Just looking at those photos reinforces my desire to never get near rattlers. Pretty, yes...pretty dangerous too! I repespect those who own and handle them, but.....no thanks.

We have Mississauga rattlers in these parts. But they are very shy and I only know of one person ever coming across one. It was sitting in her driveway. She gave it a lot of room!

I'll stick to the harmless variety.

Lump

[Stefan-A]

Originally Posted by Bay_area

On a final note... Venomous are not for the average snake keeper, I do want to stress that. Experience with nonvenomous snakes, no matter how long does not justify that getting into "hots"!!! If someone has the desire to keep "hots", I suggest helping someone that already keeps them in a responsible way. Experience goes along way.
Thank you everyone,
Jerry

Wise words indeed. What's your suggestion to those of us, who simply don't know anybody who keeps them? Well, at least not anybody who could show you how to do things correctly.

[jeanette]

i dont think that the strength of venom in the bite of an adult or the bite of a young snake matters, at the end of it all the most dangerous bite is the one that got you. Just a thought there