OK I'm sooooo TEEDED off it's not even funny!!!!!

[gregmonsta]

Jungle corn crosses are widely accepted and have been established in the hobby for quite some time ...

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

There is nothing wrong with hybrids, as long as they are honestly represented for what they are. They are every bit as beautiful and wonderful as any full blooded snake.

She is going to attempt to produce what's called a "jungle corn"... and as gregmonsta said, they are a widely accepted and even sought after snake in the hobby. Their popularity is due to the fact that no two are quite alike... they combine the beauty of both species in very interesting patterning and color. I don;t personally have any, but If I ever meet the right one... then I will!

[GartersRock]

Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

There is nothing wrong with hybrids, as long as they are honestly represented for what they are. They are every bit as beautiful and wonderful as any full blooded snake.

Oh I agree!!! Many hybrids ARE beautiful.
But thats just it... Not everyone is going to represent what the really are... That can really mess things up for people.
So it's just a really risky thing...

[Charlet_2007]

i am a full time rescue.. what makes me mad is that in breeding the 2 together which she shouldn't do in the first place then by eather selling them or giving them away will hurt potenal adopters for snakes that need to be adopted.. kind of like puppy mills and adopting dogs you know what i mean? that and im just waint for a hurd of mix breed snakes to come thu here now..

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

I agree, to an extent with what you are saying... but I really dont see it happening in the way it does with dogs or cats. A dog is a LOT more work. When people have snakes, they can easily mantain even a fairly large collection without a whole lot of effort.... while a dog... well, dogs are a ton of work. The point is... that many hybrid snakes are actually MORE sought after right now than normals, and I am speaking of course about the peole that actually like hybrids, cause not everyone does and that's their opinion. There are so many names out there for them.... and they sell faster than normal snakes!!! I would be more worried about the fate of the albino checkered garter snake.... so inbred, half of them come out ********. or the extremely hardcore overabundance of cornsnakes and BP's we are seeing. But even all those cornsnakes, all those BP's are still going to homes. and it's because housing snakes and dogs are two very different things. People are always looking to expand and collect more awesome snakes. I understand completely where you are coming from, and Im not criticizing anyone here....but I firmly do not beleive that there is going to be a sudden rush of hybrid snakes into the shelters... especially not these jungle corns.

I understand that every animal sold, is one displaced as far as adoption.... I actually encourage every person I can at my store to adopt their next dog and not buy it. I highly despise puppy mills... and that goes the same for any place that mass breeds/imports snakes purely for profit... or any animal for that matter. but some people want to buy their snakes because they want to know exactly where it came from, it's lineage, it's feeding records, basically it's life story from even before it was born, and they want to raise that snake to adulthood and use it as a breeder of their own, hybrid or not, everyone has their own preferences to their snakes and what they keep, how they acquire them, and how they care for them. I don't think snakes will ever crowd shelters by the millions like dogs and cats... because snake keeping, and mammal keeing, are two very different levels of time and money consumption.

I personally have adopted quite a few snakes, and even a few lizards, even if it was solely for the purpose of getting their health and weight back up to par before rehoming them. I recently rescued a 4 foot cornsnake that had been crowded in a 10 gallon all its life... and I am keeping her, and plan to use her in a future project since she's so unique.

[GartersRock]

I REALLY don't like it when people compare reptiles, rodents etc to dogs and cats. TOTALLY different if you ask me. And I am involved in both. The dogs and cats are in a worse situation. WAY worse. lol

[Charlet_2007]

no this is is the way i think about it.. it's like playing god.. these 2 snakes would never in a million years come in contact with each other in the wild.. so who's for us just to look at the both of them and say oh wow let do this to get this it's just plain WRONG in my opinion..

[Hornets23]

Hybridization does occur in nature....I dont know about these two species specifically...Also nature does have many means of reproductive isolation, so if two species are able to produce viable offspring....is it THAT bad? I dont know...something to think about I guess. Plus you have to factor in that these are pets we are talking about. Dogs didnt come nicely packaged into AKC recognized breeds until humans did a lot of tinkering. I wouldnt exactly consider it morally wrong.

[sschind]

A couple of things.

If you are a full time rescue then shouldn't you be opposed to ANY breeding of ANY snakes. I don't see why a hybrid snake is any different than a pure species from your standpoint. Any snake bred is a snake sold and is a potential adoption lost. I doubt that hybrids turn up at rescues in any more abundance than pure species.

Why shouldn't she breed the two together in the first place? You are trying to force your values on someone else. Like I said before, not everyone thinks it is wrong.

I'm pretty sure that there is some overlap of corn snake and kingsnake ranges. Maybe not cal kings but certainly more Eastern species. Nature has developed ways to keep snakes from hybridizing in the wild but it is not a foolproof plan. As Hornet said, hybridization in nature does happen.

OK, we get it. In YOUR opinion it is just plain wrong. But not in everyone's opinion. No one is trying to tell you that you should accept and embrace hybrids. What you have done however, is accuse those who do like hybrids of playing God. You have told them their opinion is wrong. This is not an issue where there is a right and a wrong. There is just your opinion and somebody else's opinion and they may be different. I don't mind if you tell me that your opinion is different than mine, I just don't like it when you tell me I am wrong for having my opinion.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Originally Posted by Charlet_2007

no this is is the way i think about it.. it's like playing god.. these 2 snakes would never in a million years come in contact with each other in the wild.. so who's for us just to look at the both of them and say oh wow let do this to get this it's just plain WRONG in my opinion..

Okay... I see why you are so upset, but honestly... there is nothing, absolutely NOTHING, natural about us keeping snakes period. We play god to our snakes and ALL of our pets, so the "playing god" tactic with hybrids, is bogus. I have heard that argument too many times... and it's time I spoke my two cents about it. If youre gonna go for that route....Who's for us to keep snakes period?

We tell our snakes what theyre gonna eat, when theyre gonna eat it, what kind of climate they will live in, what they get to hide in, what kind of stuff they get to crawl around on, when they are gonna mate, who they get to mate with, how many times, where they get to lay their eggs, how big of a water source they have available, where their heat comes from and then on top of all that, we harass them constantly by picking them up and playing with them. There is nothing naturual at all about us keeping snakes in glass boxes and writng their life stories for them. We take an animal that has evolved to survive less than optimal conditions... and we give them optimal conditions... which is really not natural for the snake at all. There is no one to wipe debris from their food in the wild, no one to remove that stuck shed, no one to move them somewhere dry when their entire habitat is soaking wet. There is no one to protect them from the hungry claws of a hawk or the jaws of another snake. There is no one to help them, no one but themselves, but they are still doing fine. By giving them optimal conditions... we are essentially mimicing snake utopia. That, by far, is ten times more playing god than simply allowing two snakes of different species, who are perfectly willing, and able, to breed. Sure, in a sense, it is playing god, but you are playing god the moment you choose to own any animal. And that is not an opinion, but pure, raw, fact, like it or not.

I understand that not everyone chooses to like hybrids, and those of us who do, will like them regardless of the opposing people trying to impose their ways upon us.

Look at it from this point of view.... how many people out there do not agree with us keeping snakes, how many times have you felt attacked when someone called you a horrible person for feeding a cutsie wootsie mouse to a snake? In the end... it all comes down to what you personally can handle, and what you can't. People who like rodents a whole lot... don't keep snakes, because in their eyes, it is wrong. But we do it, we love it, we embrace it and we share the love with one another. And we do not allow the masses to sway us. People within that group of snake keepers, who like hybrids, keep them. And yet, there are people in our own trade who continue to criticize one another, and put others down for something that they simply do not agree with and have opinionated themselves against, and are trying to press that opinion upon those that do not agree with how they feel.

Basically, what I am getting at, is that I think it's totally silly and even hypocritical, for snake keepers to try and impose their feelings and beliefs on others, and yet do not realize that they are doing to other people exactly what the non-snake keepers do to them!