Yup yup! SLB we have definately looked a bit more closely at the stuation, and you are correct, they are both pretty much plain old T.Ordinoides in Brown, the parents I mean. Kind of confuzzling with there markings and colour, (being so close together) but defo NW... thanks, and I was in the mind that Blood was NW as are the rest of the brood, the younglings definately have all the traites of NW, and pretty much look nothing like Ma and Pa, which is really weird... Meh I is learning! LoL