Anyone care to help me out with an essay?

[Stefan-A]

I'm very sorry if I'm starting to seem arrogant here, it's definitely not my intention and I recognize that it's easy to interpret the following text the wrong way.

Originally Posted by drache

the fact is that even reduced to absolute scientific fact, we do not completely die, or we die all the time, whichever way you look at it

Death is the permanent cessation of all vital functions. It affects the organism as a whole, not specific parts of it.

and when we die, that entity we were known as, ceases to exist, but according to the laws of physics, nothing gets lost

Close to what the laws of physics say, but not quite; Energy (in the scientific sense) cannot be destroyed.

who knows?
perhaps traces of consciousness are embedded in the very molecules we consist of

Well, no. Molecules are atoms that are held together through chemical bonds and those bonds break eventually. The microbes that break down our body once we have died, do it in the process and if you're a fan of cremation, it basically recombines the atoms to form molecules of, among other things, CO2 and H2O.

but even if they're not, undoubtedly we're meant to be recycled and live on in other organisms that are nourished by our deaths

I doubt that there is any kind of meaning involved in the process.

on an ego level we die, but in reality we just become something else

We are quite thoroughly destroyed, we don't really become anything else on a concrete level.

[Cazador]

We're talking about the first and second laws of thermodynamics as well as biochemistry. These are advanced topics that aren't going to clarified through casual discussion on this forum . They're complicated and take time and effort to understand.

The first & second laws of thermodynamics essentially state that 1) Energy is transferred, but it is never created nor destroyed & 2) entropy (disorder or randomness) is ever increasing.

Living systems acquire, convert, transfer, and expend energy in an attempt retain order until they are no longer capable of doing so. Memory (including thought), muscle function, neural function, respiration, digestion & excretion, circulation, etc. etc. etc. all use chemical energy in order to function. Unless you're a bacterium, plant, or a few types of protist that chemical energy comes from the break-down of high energy bonds in molecules from food and drink, and is stored in other molecules. Those storage molecules are broken to release energy to do "work." When we die, we no longer acquire energy, so we're unable to repair damaged cells or support living cells. We're no longer able to deliver oxygen to maintain existing cells, and they rapidly die. As tissues break down, the chemicals (and energy) within them disperse. In a very real sense, the Nitrogen, Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Iodine, etc. is not destroyed but transferred into organisms that degrade our bodies; then perhaps into plants, herbivores, omnivores, and carnivores. If seen from this angle, one could say that a part of us is never really destroyed but continues to exist. Yet, that part of us was only borrowed because it came from matter our parents provided and the nutrients we acquired. We never made any of it... just gave a different level of order to it. Everything to this point can be (and has been) replicated under controlled conditions.

Just a bit of why the topic probably isn't worth pursuing very far in this format .

[adamanteus]

I agree to all the above! But..... The question isn't about the physical life we're living now, is it? I don't think an examination of the chemical make-up and eventual break down of an organism can prove or disprove the existance of an afterlife. Is it not some level of conciousness living on after our physical death, that we hope for? Aren't we talking about "the soul", rather than carbon atoms.

[Stefan-A]

Originally Posted by adamanteus

I agree to all the above! But..... The question isn't about the physical life we're living now, is it? I don't think an examination of the chemical make-up and eventual break down of an organism can prove or disprove the existance of an afterlife. Is it not some level of conciousness living on after our physical death, that we hope for? Aren't we talking about "the soul", rather than carbon atoms.

Yeah, that was in my thoughts when I wrote that previous post. Why mix science into the question at all, considering that the debate over an afterlife definitely isn't scientific?

We do however have a fairly good idea of how humans work and it just doesn't leave much room for a consciousness after the synapses have stopped firing. If you want any other answer than "There is no afterlife.", you need to search for it in another philosophy.

[adamanteus]

I guess that as we are such intelligent creatures (well, some of us!), we are aware of our ultimate fate and, at times, consider it. If we thought too deeply about what is inevitably to come to us all, we might just think "What's the point of anything then?" and stop striving to achieve whatever it is we wish to achieve in our short lives. We need the belief that there is something else after this, or at the least, that someone will continue to care about the things we did or said during our lives. Maybe we're just looking for a purpose.

[Stefan-A]

Originally Posted by adamanteus

I guess that as we are such intelligent creatures (well, some of us!), we are aware of our ultimate fate and, at times, consider it. If we thought too deeply about what is inevitably to come to us all, we might just think "What's the point of anything then?" and stop striving to achieve whatever it is we wish to achieve in our short lives. We need the belief that there is something else after this, or at the least, that someone will continue to care about the things we did or said during our lives. Maybe we're just looking for a purpose.

Who's "we"? I just think life beats the alternative.

And if there was an afterlife, what would make this life worth living?

[adamanteus]

This seemed somehow fitting.

But where are you now, my noblest treasure sharer?
I cannot look upon these ruined walls and not cry out
Where are they now?
Where the feasting faces round this table?
Where the many matchless heroes?
Where the proud horsemen and their steeds?
Under these skies, fate's will alone endures
Here wealth is lent us
Freinds are lent us
Heroes are mortal and kinsfolk pass away
And here, at last
The Earths wide frame itself shall come to desecration.

[drache]

ah, the soul
is that the one that only humans, made in the image of God, have?
or do other beings have them too?
and if so, only mammals?
or everything, down to single-cell organisms?
flowers are said to possess soul
only flowers, or other plants too?
or perhaps only the beautiful ones?
sort of like only white people used to have souls

sorry
I realize that I do not believe in absolute answers about anything
even scientific "facts" change

but as to whether life is worth living
ought not to have that much to do with an afterlife

[drache]

On a lighter note

what did the buddhist say to the hot dog vendor?

"make me one with everything"

[suzoo]

Hi ya! I was just in Calif. to my Grandmother's funneral, so I may be a little biased
Here's my input; Biblical info, Jesus was crucified, and 3 days later rose from the dead, and was seen by over 500 people and recognized. Now, I had a teacher in the 8th grade(yes, hearsay) that said she had several historian and scientist friends search historical findings and literature to disprove this. To their horror, they only found proof of these things to be TRUE! After this, she said they became "christians", and also found they had literature other than the Bible, that spoke of how Lazerus had also died and been brought back to life by Jesus. And don't I wish I knew where to find, and what literature this was!!!!
I have heard of lots of people who try to prove the Bible wrong, and to date, (2000 years or so), no one has been able to. Even non-Christian historians say, "It's a great history book". So if in 2000 years, no one can prove it wrong, then perhaps it is true. If so, there IS an afterlife, and a "Great History Book" to back up this claim.
On a personal note, I have had very real proof in my life that God exists. So, if anyone wants to hear about that, feel free to ask or pm me.