Outdoor enclosures and hybrids…

[reptileparadise]

I’m thinking about building an outdoor enclosure for a couple of months now...
The only thing that I havent really found any info about is mixing subspecies in an outdoor enclosure.
Lets says some-one has an outdoor enclosure of 4mX4m. He (me J ) wants to keep several species in this enclosure, sirtalis sirtalis black, sirtalis parietalis and maybe radix radix.
All very nice offcourse, but I suddenly thought about hybrids comming from sirtalis sirtalis X sirtalis parietalis...Not really something I want to happen.
What do you guys think...Seeing this, I think it will be best to keep subspecies seperate to avoid any chance of different subspecies mating and producing babies.
Just to make sure...I havent mixed any subspecies from different sexes yet...I dont even have a outdoor enclosure yet!

(by the way...does anyone know what species Steven Bol keeps in his outdoor enclosure? )

[drache]

this is a subject I've also given thought to, since I'm planning on creating an outdoor enclosure in my garden, hopefully next year
from what i understtand different species have different pheromones, but - yes - what about subspecies?
and
would a female mate with a male of a different subspecies, even if one of her own was available?
thanks for starting this thread

[zooplan]

I have no outdoor enclosure but I know that when different sirtalis subspecies are kept together hybrids will occur.

[Snaky]

hybrids are also know between radix and sirtalis...

I think Steven has the following in his outside enclosure:
Natrix helvetica ( or another natrix, not sure on that one )
Thamnophis radix
Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis

[Gijs & Sabine]

Originally Posted by Snaky

hybrids are also know between radix and sirtalis...

I think Steven has the following in his outside enclosure:
Natrix helvetica ( or another natrix, not sure on that one )
Thamnophis radix
Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis

Sorry Snaky, I'll have to correct you. Steven Bol has T.radix and T.s.pickeringii (not infernalis) in his outdoor enclosure.

I know different subspecies can make hybrids quite easily, but as far as I know, it didn't happen to Steven so far.
I'll suggest you should contact Steven about that.

ps. Sjoerd, next time you have to join our meeting, than you don't have to ask questions like this

[reptileparadise]

Yeah, I know...I will defenitly try to be at the meeting next time!

Its interesting to know that sirtalis and radix can produce hybrids, but now I'm wondering why omething like this hasn't happened with Steven yet.
There must be an reason...but what could it be...

[zooplan]

hybrids of sirtalis and radix are quiet rare, I know several keepers in Germany who keep this two species together without any mixed offspring.
But never put a male checkered to any other female!!

[drache]

I wonder . . .
I've got T.radix, T.e.vagrans, T.s.parietalis and concinnus
which ones of these would most likely be okay together without mating mistakes?
I was thinking the first two, yes
the sirtalis not with each other, but either, with one or both of the others?

[Snaky]

Originally Posted by Gijs & Sabine

Sorry Snaky, I'll have to correct you. Steven Bol has T.radix and T.s.pickeringii (not infernalis) in his outdoor enclosure.

I know different subspecies can make hybrids quite easily, but as far as I know, it didn't happen to Steven so far.
I'll suggest you should contact Steven about that.

ps. Sjoerd, next time you have to join our meeting, than you don't have to ask questions like this

goddamn, only 26 and already alzheimer
I wasn't sure and picked the wrong one