found this on kingsnake - Page 2

RZL36 · 10-25-2007, 03:02 PM

So is there a substantive difference between a minnow and a goldfish?

If there is, I think I may have misrepresented my point. I have never fed goldfish before, but rosy red minnows work like a charm. Great for getting them onto pinks.

So do think there is a difference, James (or anyone)?

adamanteus · 10-25-2007, 03:07 PM

Rosy's are great....they don't contain Thiaminase, whereas goldfish do.

ssssnakeluvr · 10-25-2007, 03:09 PM

rosies are minnows....goldfish are in a different family...make great pets but lousy food for garters.

RZL36 · 10-25-2007, 03:12 PM

Thanks guys. I had no idea. I thought rosies were just baby goldfish. Sorry

adamanteus · 10-25-2007, 03:31 PM

No probs, Rich. I think goldfish belong to the Carp family....anyone?

If anyone has never witnessed the effects of thiamin deficiency, let me just outline a few of the symptoms.....
At first the snake looks well and continues to put on weight, but the movements appear impaired. The snake seems 'clumbsy' and will fall over for no apparent reason. As things progress, forward movement is accompanied by a strange spiralling of the body, so that sections of the belly are uppermost as the snake crawls. Later, the snake will twist itself into tight coils and knots, and suddenly convulse. The muscle tension can be so great that I have seen Garters prolapse large sections of the gut.

Although Thiaminase prevents the synthesis of calcium in the body, this does not show as poor bone formation, as you might expect. Obviously calcium is needed by the motor system of the snake. Death results long before bone deformity becomes apparent. It must be incredibly painfull.

Trust me, you don't want to see your snakes go through this. Never use fish containing Thiaminase. There are so many safe alternatives.

anji1971 · 10-25-2007, 03:38 PM

Yes, goldfish do indeed belong to the carp family. Don't know the scientific name -- that stuff is for you guys!!

But I do know that they are related!

enigma200316 · 10-25-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anji1971

Yes, goldfish do indeed belong to the carp family. Don't know the scientific name -- that stuff is for you guys!!

But I do know that they are related!

yes Goldfish are in the Carp Family, they are close cousins..........

Golfish(Carassius auratus) so there ya go..........

enigma200316 · 10-25-2007, 06:03 PM

oh and a rosy-reds are in the Carp Family, but I'm not sure how they do that,but any way a Rosy is actually a color phase of a FatHead Minnow(Pimephales promelas) so theres that one also...................

Charlet_2007 · 10-25-2007, 07:29 PM

ive been feeding my garter toads well sence there isnt any now that fall and winter is here, i was like man where do i find toads at? then today I was feeding my T's crickets and thought hey what if i put crickets in there with the garter? He loves them!!!

im so happy that i don't have to find toads now.....

garterking · 10-25-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlet_2007

ive been feeding my garter toads well sence there isnt any now that fall and winter is here, i was like man where do i find toads at? then today I was feeding my T's crickets and thought hey what if i put crickets in there with the garter? He loves them!!!

im so happy that i don't have to find toads now.....

No offense, I've never heard of them eating crickets. You must have a rare one.

10-25-2007, 03:02 PM	#11 (permalink)
RZL36 Subadult snake Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Shores of Jersey Posts: 331 Country:	Re: found this on kingsnake So is there a substantive difference between a minnow and a goldfish? If there is, I think I may have misrepresented my point. I have never fed goldfish before, but rosy red minnows work like a charm. Great for getting them onto pinks. So do think there is a difference, James (or anyone)? __________________ Rich

10-25-2007, 03:07 PM	#12 (permalink)
adamanteus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cheshire. (Near Manchester). Posts: 6,685 Country:	Re: found this on kingsnake Rosy's are great....they don't contain Thiaminase, whereas goldfish do. __________________ James.

10-25-2007, 03:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
ssssnakeluvr "PM Boots For Custom Title" Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 1,478 Country:	Re: found this on kingsnake rosies are minnows....goldfish are in a different family...make great pets but lousy food for garters. __________________ Don www.donsgartersnakes.net

10-25-2007, 03:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
RZL36 Subadult snake Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Shores of Jersey Posts: 331 Country:	Re: found this on kingsnake Thanks guys. I had no idea. I thought rosies were just baby goldfish. Sorry __________________ Rich

10-25-2007, 03:31 PM	#15 (permalink)
adamanteus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cheshire. (Near Manchester). Posts: 6,685 Country:	Re: found this on kingsnake No probs, Rich. I think goldfish belong to the Carp family....anyone? If anyone has never witnessed the effects of thiamin deficiency, let me just outline a few of the symptoms..... At first the snake looks well and continues to put on weight, but the movements appear impaired. The snake seems 'clumbsy' and will fall over for no apparent reason. As things progress, forward movement is accompanied by a strange spiralling of the body, so that sections of the belly are uppermost as the snake crawls. Later, the snake will twist itself into tight coils and knots, and suddenly convulse. The muscle tension can be so great that I have seen Garters prolapse large sections of the gut. Although Thiaminase prevents the synthesis of calcium in the body, this does not show as poor bone formation, as you might expect. Obviously calcium is needed by the motor system of the snake. Death results long before bone deformity becomes apparent. It must be incredibly painfull. Trust me, you don't want to see your snakes go through this. Never use fish containing Thiaminase. There are so many safe alternatives. __________________ James.

10-25-2007, 03:38 PM	#16 (permalink)
anji1971 Finder of unique Garters Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Windsor, Ontario Posts: 1,702 Country:	Re: found this on kingsnake Yes, goldfish do indeed belong to the carp family. Don't know the scientific name -- that stuff is for you guys!! But I do know that they are related! __________________ Anji

10-25-2007, 06:03 PM	#18 (permalink)
enigma200316 Basilisk (The King of all Serpents) Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Eastern, US Posts: 1,739 Country:	Re: found this on kingsnake oh and a rosy-reds are in the Carp Family, but I'm not sure how they do that,but any way a Rosy is actually a color phase of a FatHead Minnow(Pimephales promelas) so theres that one also................... __________________ "Can't wait for World Meeting 2009" Justin... 0.0.1 parietalis 0.1.3 similis

10-25-2007, 07:29 PM	#19 (permalink)
Charlet_2007 Subadult snake Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 292 Country:	Re: found this on kingsnake ive been feeding my garter toads well sence there isnt any now that fall and winter is here, i was like man where do i find toads at? then today I was feeding my T's crickets and thought hey what if i put crickets in there with the garter? He loves them!!! im so happy that i don't have to find toads now..... __________________ Thanks ~Natalie~ 1.1.3 G. Rosea - Charlet, Itsy, Bitsy, & Spider 1.0.1 Lizards- Bowser & Yoshi 1.2.1 Water Turtles- Spaze, Flow, CS & Aqua 3.2.1 Snakes- Loki, No Feet, Thor, Elli, Seth, Sabrina Last edited by Charlet_2007 : 10-25-2007 at 07:48 PM.

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