found this on kingsnake

[drache]

clearly it's not something to be attempted by sloppy people

[zooplan]

Originally Posted by drache

clearly it's not something to be attempted by sloppy people

thats a fact I can affirm

[RZL36]

I don't understand how taking a pair out of the wild, breeding them successfully and reintroducing them into the wild could do more bad than good. As long as they are quarantined (so you don't hurt either you cbb or you wc snakes), I'm not seeing anything wrong with it. In New Jersey, where I am from, there are fewer and fewer snakes. So me, and maybe the three other people in my county, trying to offset human encroachment into habitat is "playing god?"

[rancor_]

Originally Posted by RZL36

I don't understand how taking a pair out of the wild, breeding them successfully and reintroducing them into the wild could do more bad than good. As long as they are quarantined (so you don't hurt either you cbb or you wc snakes), I'm not seeing anything wrong with it. In New Jersey, where I am from, there are fewer and fewer snakes. So me, and maybe the three other people in my county, trying to offset human encroachment into habitat is "playing god?"

Again, not a black and white issue, but if the decrease is due to habitat loss...how would pumping more snakes into a smaller area help? That would actually just increase mortality rates (more young competing for the same resources). There are many historical examples of humans "playing God" with wildlife that were more harmful than successful.
If steps are taken to do things properly, than its a non-issue, but Adding a WC pair into your room full of garters to breed and release...isnt really proper. Fecal exams, bloodwork, are all expensive and I doubt most would pay for it on snakes they plan on setting free.
[quote]of course, but how should this be proven?[\quote]
This would be where an actual study is done, not a drop and go. Long term studies show how effective release programs are.

[RZL36]

It would help by supplementing a population that is usually killed by people just being afraid of snakes (which is certainly a facet of human encroachment).

What historical examples do you have about the capturing, captive breeding and releasing of native herps?

Again if they were quarantined from the rest of my snakes and subsequently, not getting any potential diseases that my cbs would have, why would I need to do all that veterinary work?

The only thing I really am doing is assuring that two snakes, that would normally do so, meet, get married and breed. It really is as simple as that. That is fairly black and white? Agreed?

[adamanteus]

Originally Posted by rancor_

Wow.
Where to start. I cant site references now, but there has been many documented cases of people like yourself introducing parasites and pathogens that decimate populations. (Turtles anyone??) I will site some at a later date as I have been consuming some beverages that make research hard to do at the moment.
Why would you do such a thing??? God complex perhaps? I know youre a mod and as I am new here, my posts can and should be taken with a grain of salt, but such practices are hardly beneficial, and usually only self gratifying.
What I have found as far as thamnophis goes is a completely different view than most other genus. Should I breed my aspidites and send them to the threatened part of their range???
Interesting discussion we have unearthed and I look forward to the responses from the learned.

I feel no need to explain myself or my actions to you. But I do however take exception to the tone of your reply. You have no notion of who I am or what my motives are.

[zooplan]

[quote=rancor_;31521]Again, not a black and white issue, but if the decrease is due to habitat loss...how would pumping more snakes into a smaller area help? That would actually just increase mortality rates (more young competing for the same resources). There are many historical examples of humans "playing God" with wildlife that were more harmful than successful.
If steps are taken to do things properly, than its a non-issue, but Adding a WC pair into your room full of garters to breed and release...isnt really proper. Fecal exams, bloodwork, are all expensive and I doubt most would pay for it on snakes they plan on setting free.

of course, but how should this be proven?[\quote]
This would be where an actual study is done, not a drop and go. Long term studies show how effective release programs are.

decrease may not due to habitat loss only ( like building roads) but also caused by artifical predators (pets like rats, cats, dogs, lawnmowers, cars, ploughs....and infections)
In such a multiple caused situation the catch and release strategy will help a population to survive some critical years or push it to evolve and assimilate.

[RZL36]

Good points Udo.