a very "special" checkered garter....

[Stefan-A]

Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

I will assure you that these guys are NOT deprived of thiamine! they have been this way since birth, and they are constantly pumped with vitamins and i specifically buy the one with the highest thiamine content. I do not feed gold fish or F/t fish, just rosy reds and pinky parts. As well as your occasional worm lol! Mom herself never did anything like this nor ever showed signs of a thiamine problem. Trust me, I have seen the havoc thiamine deficiency wreaks on a garter snake. I tried to save someone else's pet but it was too late...

I don't doubt you, I just meant that stargazing might have another meaning when talking about garters, compared to corns.

[MoJo]

Stargazing does in fact refer to the symptoms - ie the way the snakes seem to look upwards. I posted a link to this on the corn snake site and a breeder there that knows the most about stargazing in corn snakes and is also a vet brought up an excellent point. The mother of these babies was ill while she was gravid so it is very likey that the babies were infected by a virus and there was some neurological damage.

The only way to know would be to do a necropsy. You could breed the male to his Mom and you would expect half the babies to be like him.

Joanna

[adamanteus]

In my experience thiamin deficiency causes rather more extreme symptoms, such as convulsing and a more 'cork-screw' type of locomotion. In advanced cases I have seen Garters coil themselves so tightly that they actually prolapse. If the snake were new to you, I would suspect early deficiency, but in view of the time you've had them and your familiarity with correct diet, I would guess this is a simple birth defect brought about through selective in-breeding. As Roy suggested, a recessive gene.

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

lol sorry but I'm not going to breed him to anything! and im not sending him off to no lab!!! because even if i were to do that it would just mean more snakes that have to live with a disorder of some sort. I am quite content just keeping him here and giving him the best possible life, upside down.

Like I said, Mom was very ill and I believe that the illness was what caused this malfunction. Like I said she had a LOT of infertile slugs come out too. Almost 15!

Mom and dad were for sale right next to their last litter when i picked them up! all 30 something of them looked fine! i do not beleive this is a genetic defect as this pair is 4 years old and previous offspring appeared normal. Normal breeding is scheduled to commence in about 3 weeks when I bring them out of brumation. I do not expect this year's litter to have any problems.

[adamanteus]

Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

a LOT of infertile slugs come out too. Almost 15!

So that would be.... what? About 14?

[MoJo]

Originally Posted by aSnakeLovinBabe

lol sorry but I'm not going to breed him to anything! and im not sending him off to no lab!!! because even if i were to do that it would just mean more snakes that have to live with a disorder of some sort. I am quite content just keeping him here and giving him the best possible life, upside down.

Like I said, Mom was very ill and I believe that the illness was what caused this malfunction. Like I said she had a LOT of infertile slugs come out too. Almost 15!

Mom and dad were for sale right next to their last litter when i picked them up! all 30 something of them looked fine! i do not beleive this is a genetic defect as this pair is 4 years old and previous offspring appeared normal. Normal breeding is scheduled to commence in about 3 weeks when I bring them out of brumation. I do not expect this year's litter to have any problems.

I certainly agree that it sounds like this happened because she was ill. I was not suggesting that you do anything to prove if this was genetic but discussing the ways in which you could do it.

Good luck with this years litter.

[Sid]

The little guy is definately unique. The important thing is he's healthy and looks great. Never seen the behavior in a Garter.

[Serpentine99]

cool little garter you got there, best to luck with him in the future, also how does he eat?

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

he eats like a pig. He eats every three days, he gets rosies and pinky chunks. He will gorge until he looks like a little sometimes-upside-down sausage.

[Serpentine99]

what i mean is does he eat upside down as well?