ID

Tori · 04-03-2008, 04:01 AM

Ok, help me out here. An Oregon red spotted garter has a single stripe down its back with no side stripes, right? Usually has a blue or black belly? I've been checking them out online because of a photo I received from someone in Oregon that said he had one for sale. But the photo that he sent me is wrong. Half the sites online don't even list it as a native snake for Oregon and some of the ones that do have the wrong photo with it like this one: wildherps.com - Common Gartersnake (Thamnophis sirtalis) Here is the photo the guy sent me. I know it isn't a red spotted, but it doesn't look like any eastern I've run across either. Keep in mind that the web sites don't even agree on what is native there. They don't list the puget either. Only the eastern, terrestial, North Western, and Santa Cruz, but there are also the california redsided, Mountain garter, and Valley garter present in Oregon. So, I'm not sure what kind this is for sure. I'm leaning towards California red sided (not all of them have the blue) or the Valley. Opinions?

adamanteus · 04-03-2008, 04:17 AM

My first thought was parietalis, but Oregon is outside their range. So I would have to say it's a fitchi, but that decision is only made by a process of elimination. I bet Don or Roy will be able to help you out with this one.

Stefan-A · 04-03-2008, 04:27 AM

Did he say it was wildcaught in Oregon? Looks like a parietalis to me.

Tori · 04-03-2008, 04:47 AM

Yes, it is supposed to be wild caught/long time captive

Stefan-A · 04-03-2008, 04:49 AM

If that's the case, I too lean towards fitchi.

GarterGuy · 04-03-2008, 06:34 AM

Yeh, I'd have to agree with Stephan.....T.fitchi. It does kind of look like it could be a infernalis, but even though they don't always have blue, they do pretty much always have red on the top of the head, which this guy seems to be lacking. It's definitely not one of the elegans complex, it's got seven instead of eight upper labials and numbers 6 and 7 aren't enlarged. Yeh, I'm definitely thinking fitchi.

drache · 04-03-2008, 06:56 AM

this is just an odd question
not that I know anything, but . . .
who's to say that a snake you find in the wild absolutely has to be one naturally occurring in that area
how can we be sure that it's not a released snake or the offspring of one?

Stefan-A · 04-03-2008, 07:04 AM

That's a valid point, Rhea. However, it is in my opinion less probable, that this snake would be one of them, instead of just another native garter that just happens to be difficult to identify.

Thamnophis · 04-03-2008, 09:01 AM

Compare your snake with these on this page:

Thamnophis - Foto's

ssssnakeluvr · 04-03-2008, 09:10 AM

looks like a parietalis....I don't think it was caught up there....it may have been wild caught elsewhere and they got it and are now selling it.

04-03-2008, 04:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
Tori "Second shed In Progress" Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Holland, Michigan Posts: 236 Country:	ID Ok, help me out here. An Oregon red spotted garter has a single stripe down its back with no side stripes, right? Usually has a blue or black belly? I've been checking them out online because of a photo I received from someone in Oregon that said he had one for sale. But the photo that he sent me is wrong. Half the sites online don't even list it as a native snake for Oregon and some of the ones that do have the wrong photo with it like this one: wildherps.com - Common Gartersnake (Thamnophis sirtalis) Here is the photo the guy sent me. I know it isn't a red spotted, but it doesn't look like any eastern I've run across either. Keep in mind that the web sites don't even agree on what is native there. They don't list the puget either. Only the eastern, terrestial, North Western, and Santa Cruz, but there are also the california redsided, Mountain garter, and Valley garter present in Oregon. So, I'm not sure what kind this is for sure. I'm leaning towards California red sided (not all of them have the blue) or the Valley. Opinions? __________________ Tori Remember: Marriage is the number one cause of divorce.

04-03-2008, 04:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
adamanteus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cheshire. (Near Manchester). Posts: 7,867 Country:	Re: ID My first thought was parietalis, but Oregon is outside their range. So I would have to say it's a fitchi, but that decision is only made by a process of elimination. I bet Don or Roy will be able to help you out with this one. __________________ James.

04-03-2008, 04:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
Stefan-A The Prince of Insufficient Light. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Southern Finland Posts: 4,796 Country:	Re: ID Did he say it was wildcaught in Oregon? Looks like a parietalis to me. __________________ Natura non contristatur

04-03-2008, 04:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
Tori "Second shed In Progress" Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Holland, Michigan Posts: 236 Country:	Re: ID Yes, it is supposed to be wild caught/long time captive __________________ Tori Remember: Marriage is the number one cause of divorce.

04-03-2008, 04:49 AM	#5 (permalink)
Stefan-A The Prince of Insufficient Light. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Southern Finland Posts: 4,796 Country:	Re: ID If that's the case, I too lean towards fitchi. __________________ Natura non contristatur

04-03-2008, 06:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
GarterGuy Brother Snake Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lancaster,PA Posts: 1,356 Country:	Re: ID Yeh, I'd have to agree with Stephan.....T.fitchi. It does kind of look like it could be a infernalis, but even though they don't always have blue, they do pretty much always have red on the top of the head, which this guy seems to be lacking. It's definitely not one of the elegans complex, it's got seven instead of eight upper labials and numbers 6 and 7 aren't enlarged. Yeh, I'm definitely thinking fitchi. __________________ *Roy* 1.1 T.s.pickeringi 0.1 T.s.concinnus 0.0.2 T.s.pallidulus

04-03-2008, 06:56 AM	#7 (permalink)
drache Ophiuchus rhea Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brooklyn, New York Posts: 3,881 Country:	Re: ID this is just an odd question not that I know anything, but . . . who's to say that a snake you find in the wild absolutely has to be one naturally occurring in that area how can we be sure that it's not a released snake or the offspring of one? __________________ rhea "Life is just one damn thing after another" - Mark Twain this place is one damn beautiful snake after another - me

04-03-2008, 07:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
Stefan-A The Prince of Insufficient Light. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Southern Finland Posts: 4,796 Country:	Re: ID That's a valid point, Rhea. However, it is in my opinion less probable, that this snake would be one of them, instead of just another native garter that just happens to be difficult to identify. __________________ Natura non contristatur

04-03-2008, 09:01 AM	#9 (permalink)
Thamnophis Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,313 Country:	Re: ID Compare your snake with these on this page: Thamnophis - Foto's __________________ Kousebandslangen.nl - Member of the EGSA It is always advisable to be a loser if you cannot become a winner. Frank Zappa

04-03-2008, 09:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
ssssnakeluvr "PM Boots For Custom Title" Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 1,775 Country:	Re: ID looks like a parietalis....I don't think it was caught up there....it may have been wild caught elsewhere and they got it and are now selling it. __________________ Don www.donsgartersnakes.net

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode