San Francisco's

[boeh]

This is the first time I read something like that. That means not, that I can't believe that. I'm just upset about that. Did someone else heard that?

[snakeman]

There are other bloodlines.There has to be a lot of black market snakes getting out there with a hefty price tag like that.Thye poach the hell out of spotted turtles in my area.They only go for a couple hundred a pair.Imagine if they were 2000 a pair.They would disappear real fast.

[sschind]

If, more likely when, they go extinct in the wild will that mean they will then be legal to keep in the US. there will be no need to differentiate between CB and WC then.

[ssssnakeluvr]

There's a lot more indigos than san frans in the wild. Last estimate I read put the total estimated number of them at about 15oo left inthe wild...sucks... Hopefully some of us can get enough experience that when they dwindle down real low that we will be allowed to breed to help repopulate the species...I would LOVE that!!

[Markus18]

in a magazine called draco was a special about garter snakes and in the special stands that somebody broken in in the san francisco zoo and steal the san francisco garter snakes!

[Gijs & Sabine]

Originally Posted by boeh

This is the first time I read something like that. That means not, that I can't believe that. I'm just upset about that. Did someone else heard that?

We've heard something like that as well But I think it's all a big question, nobody knows for sure how many bloodlines there are. And like Snakeman said, there's a possebility for black market snakes as well.

[LukeBonham]

From what I have read, their numbers aren't in any real danger of further decline unless poaching is taking place with the adult specimens. Although there numbers are low due to habitat degradation, most of their remaning range is now protected. Each year in the spring their numbers increase but again decrease as there isn't enough resources to support a larger population. Maybe it wouldn't be such a shame if some new babies made their way up into Canada.

[abcat1993]

I doubt that they could live in Canada (but I'm not that educated on where these live exactly and how).

[GarterGuy]

Originally Posted by LukeBonham

From what I have read, their numbers aren't in any real danger of further decline unless poaching is taking place with the adult specimens. Although there numbers are low due to habitat degradation, most of their remaning range is now protected. Each year in the spring their numbers increase but again decrease as there isn't enough resources to support a larger population. Maybe it wouldn't be such a shame if some new babies made their way up into Canada.

Another problem though,is the fact that even the land that has been put aside for them is changing. In the wild, they feed specifically on amphibians...particularily on redlegged frogs...which are becoming rarer and rarer. So as the environment becomes unable to have their food source, their numbers will suffer as well....no matter how much land is put aside. What really sucks is the fact that it'd be really easy to establish a good, genetically viable captive bred population. There would be no need to be taking large numbers from the wild and with captive bred animals being readily available, the poaching of wild animals wouldn't be as much a factor. Who would pay hundreds for blackmarket wild caught snakes, when even better captive bred and born animals would be avaiable.

[sschind]

Originally Posted by GarterGuy

Another problem though,is the fact that even the land that has been put aside for them is changing. In the wild, they feed specifically on amphibians...particularily on redlegged frogs...which are becoming rarer and rarer. So as the environment becomes unable to have their food source, their numbers will suffer as well....no matter how much land is put aside. What really sucks is the fact that it'd be really easy to establish a good, genetically viable captive bred population. There would be no need to be taking large numbers from the wild and with captive bred animals being readily available, the poaching of wild animals wouldn't be as much a factor. Who would pay hundreds for blackmarket wild caught snakes, when even better captive bred and born animals would be avaiable.

If the price for the CB specimens was more you can bet there would be plenty of people lining up to get the blackmarket ones just to save a few bucks.

Believe it or not, In a way I can understand laws like this. How would one go about documenting that the baby garters you have are CB and not WC. How would enforcement officials go about proving the opposite. Until a better way of showing this, it will always be cheaper to go with an all out ban than adding a CB provision. In this day and age with budget cuts and everything I doubt if you will see many states adopting measures that will either cost more money or make laws harder to enforce.