Calmest Garters

[adamanteus]

Yeah, they sure can bite!! Did you find that you bled more than you might have expected?

[KITKAT]

Originally Posted by adamanteus

Yeah, they sure can bite!! Did you find that you bled more than you might have expected?

No, the bleeding was minor, fortunately.

[adamanteus]

Right. It's just that I've always been interested in the anti-coagulant faction in all(?) snake species saliva.

[mikm]

morning James ... yes, IMO there is an excessive amount of bleeding when bitten by a Garter. Never gave any thought to an anti-coagulant factor. Makes sense !!

thanks for sharing,
marian

[adamanteus]

That would be a good subject for a whole new thread! Cazador (toxicologist extraordinaire) must be the one to start that though!! Come on Rick, never mind fishing, get typing!!

[Cazador]

I haven't done much reading about garter snake venom, but I think Stefan has an interest in it . What do you say, Stefan? Anyone else know about garter venom?

Rick

[adamanteus]

Originally Posted by Cazador

I haven't done much reading about garter snake venom, but I think Stefan has an interest in it . What do you say, Stefan? Anyone else know about garter venom?

Rick

I don't think "venom" is the word I would use for it. But there is an anti-coagulent faction in the saliva.

[Stefan-A]

Originally Posted by Cazador

I haven't done much reading about garter snake venom, but I think Stefan has an interest in it . What do you say, Stefan? Anyone else know about garter venom?

Rick

Huh, what?

Still don't know much about the venom, but apparently it's a true venom with at least some level of neurotoxicity. There might have been a problem translating the text, but the book Strumpfbandnattern even seems to mention an LD50.

[Cazador]

For all,

The LD50 is the Lethal dose at which 50% of organisms exposed to, or injected with, a substance die.

If, for example, ten lab mice (that weigh 250g each) were injected with 100 micrograms of chemical, and half of these mice died within five days, the LD50 would be 400 micrograms of chemical per kilo of mouse tissue or 400 parts per billion.

[adamanteus]

I don't know how the dictionary definition of "venom" would read, but to me for it to be a venom it would require a specialised delivery system (fangs, grooved teeth, sting etc). Also, surely the purpose of a venom is to subdue prey prior to ingesting it. In the case of Garters which just seize and swallow, the "venom" is clearly not serving this purpose.

The anti-coagulant however would ensure the puncture wounds caused by swallowing would remain open to allow in ingress of digestive fluids. So it's an aid to digestion.

I can't comment on the neurotoxins that may be present, I haven't read that. However the book Stumpfbandnattern is in the post on it's way to me even as I type! Problem....Ich sprecken keine Deutch...Obviously!!!