garter/water snakes hybrid possiblities?

[ClosedCasket88]

would this work out ?
there closely related, live birth, same size when born and adult , both eat fish and such.????

[Cazador]

No chance. They're from different genera (plural of genus) and probably have a different number of chromosomes. They definitely wouldn't have the same genes in the same order, so their chromosomes wouldn't pair up properly after fertilization (assuming they would or could even mate). Genetically, they're way too different.

Rick

[rwgsnakes]

would a garter and ribbon work?

[Elliot]

Probably because they are both Thamnophis.

[Cazador]

Most of the time, two different species wouldn't even attempt to breed because of anatomical, behavioral, temporal, or geographic differences. Even if two different species actually copulate, formation of an embryo is extremely unlikely because of differences in fertilization mechanisms. If the sperm manages to penetrate the egg, it is then highly unlikely that they would have the same number/type of chromosomes. The number and type must match... 1/2 from the male and the same matching 1/2 from the female. The actual genes on the chromosomes pair up, and if genes are missing, kinks form on the chromosome that has too many genes. These misshapen chromosomes, then, don't replicate properly, and the embryo doesn't develop. If, however, there are only very minor differences, the embryo might continue to develop and either 1) die or during before birth, or 2) be born with reduced vigor/fitness. It is extremely rare that two different species ever produce offspring with even limited viability.

Mules are the classic exception. As I recall, the mother is a female horse, and the father is a male pony. The offspring (mules) are normally sterile. Once in a great while, fertile mules are born, but this too is due to mutated mutations.

After all this, the short answer is that ribbons and garters might be able to breed (particularily in captivity where competition is limited, and they're confined), but it's highly unlikely that they would produce viable offspring.

[stonyloam]

Actually a mule is the offspring of a female horse and a male donkey (I think that is probably what you meant), and a hinny is the offspring of a female donkey (jenny) and a male horse. I think that there have been a couple of cases where a mule has given birth, but it is extremely rare. I have lots of semi-useless information like this. What I want to know is who put the donkey up to it?

[Cazador]

Thanks for keeping the record straight, Terry. You're completely right. It's been a while, but I've owned two crosses between horses and ponies. We had a stud pony that was notorious for getting in with the mares when they were in heat. They just produced large ponies/small horses... not mules. I was thinking more about which was the mother/father in order to produce a mule .

[ClosedCasket88]

well i have confirmed breeding of these two, i guess there not compatible?
i was thinkin shell rpobly give still birth or sumthin if they wouldnt work out . ive always wondered about these two now i guess i know.
i caught lastweek what looked to be a ribbon/garter cross. its different from allthe garters around here and its neck was very skinny,almost vine like,less marking on the head and the black stripes goin down the back was real clean and no checkereed marking likes the garters around here.
but i hvatn found a ribbon snake in almost 10 year in these parts of PA. i was thinkin they might of just naturaly crossed with the garters around here and dissapeared . there just aint no ribons left around here.but i find these odd looking garters ????

[GarterGuy]

Probably is an Eastern Ribbon (T.sauritus ssp.), you don't see them as much as garters, they seem to be less adaptable to environmental changes and developement of their habitat then garters. Also they seem to rely on amphibians very highly in this area as a food source and as their numbers decrease, so do the ribbons. The garters opertunistic diet, allows it to survive better in these disturbed areas. If you've found an area that does support a good population of ribbons, that's great. Says there's a good population of amphibians there and that usually indicates a good and healthy environment.
Roy

[ClosedCasket88]

well there def not full blood ribbons that i see but something i very different about them , like i said there used to be ribons round here 10 some odd years ago when i was a kid but if they can integrade ok then i suspect thats whut these odd shaped and marked/colored "garters".im not sure ,
we gotta team up soon and go out roy, are you familiar with ridley creek state park? id like to check out soem spot in your neck of the woods as well. do yougo to the maryland reptile shows? i found a goldmine park thats perfect for al kindsa reptiles/amphibians right behind it