Red versus Blue

[mikm]

I did not know that about similis either. Thanks much for taking the time to share your knowledge .

enjoy your day,
marian

[KITKAT]

Originally Posted by drache

thanks for elucidating that
I'm still a little confused and I guess I've never thought too much about morphs. Now I realize that I'm not clear exactly what a morph is.

A morph is a color variation that is caused by the inheritance of a color gene that modifies the color of the snake, but nothing else. A subspecies has more differences than a mere color gene combination.

The Florida Blue is a straight T sirtalis because the scale count is the same, the general structure of the snake is the same, the rows on which the stripes reside are the same, and only the color is different. The Florida Blue has the lateral stripes on rows 3 & 4, and the colors tend from green to aqua to blue.

The similis, on the other hand, has a sirtalis scale count, but tends to be a bit more slender and somewhat smaller, compared to a Florida Blue sirtalis, and has the lateral stripe on rows 2 & 3, with colors that tend from blue to white. The scientific name refers to the "similarity" of the similis with a blue ribbon snake, also found in the same range.

I thought that was just an appearance thing. If an entire population is the same kind of morph, wouldn't that make it a sub species?

Depends on how different the morph looks, I think... but the Florida Blue is highly variable, and interbreeds with brown T sirtalis that live in the same range, whereas the similis tends to breed with other similis... or at least that is the theory.

Apparently there are populations of both in the wild.

The Florida Blue is found all over Florida, but the similis is found only on the west coast and panhandle coast, not extending into the interior, and not extending south of Tampa.

So what defines one as a morph and the other as a subspecies?

Taxonomists! LOL!

[drache]

thank you so much
that makes it really clear
I only wish the rest of my life could be that clear (going through a rough patch)
right now, it feels like this information about garters is a little piece of solid ground I have to stand on when the rest of the world is utter chaos
silly, huh?
knowledge is so comforting
thanks again

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by adamanteus

Just an observation. Outside of Thamnophis, blue is a pretty rare colour to find in snakes.

Sorry, I couldn't resist refreshing this, I just remembered having seen this gorgeous photo a while back and came across it again yesterday so thought I'd share...

[adamanteus]

Nice picture Esther, where did you find it? I think it's a Malayan Coral Snake (Maticora bivirgata), isn't it? Incidentally, this snake has a sub-species in (I think) Borneo, called tetrataenia!

I take back everything I said earlier about blue being an unusual colour in snakes!

[drache]

hey
I know I am just knocked over by that snake, but I don't know that it's necessarily impaired my mental faculties
I was just sort of mentally browsing our local reptile expo and I don't recall seeing a single snake with any blue colouration there ever
that snake up there certainly would have caught my attention - it's better than blue
don't tell me they're common in the UK

[adamanteus]

No, Rhea, not common at all! They're Malayan, and being highly venomous (Elapid) they're rarely seen in captivity.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by adamanteus

Nice picture Esther, where did you find it? I think it's a Malayan Coral Snake (Maticora bivirgata), isn't it? Incidentally, this snake has a sub-species in (I think) Borneo, called tetrataenia!

I take back everything I said earlier about blue being an unusual colour in snakes!

For some reason it came up when we originally looked at our first pictures of garters. I lost it again for a while but it reappeared in the search a few days ago. Yes, it is a Malaysian (Malayan?) Coral Snake. It is amazingly beautiful!

Don't take back what you said, it still is an unusual colour in snakes.

[drache]

Originally Posted by adamanteus

No, Rhea, not common at all! They're Malayan, and being highly venomous (Elapid) they're rarely seen in captivity.

that's what I thought, but I had to check, because I get the idea that you get some animals in Europe we don't, and vice versa. Then it ocurred to me, that you Brits probably get less than the continent, because of stricter regulations, or has that chenged with the tunnel?

[Snaky]

I think we have a very strict law in Belgium too... but we're great at bending or forgetting about it