first shed...

[Cazador]

I think that most people who feed fish fillets occasionally supplement it with calcium and vitamin/mineral powder. Personally, I'm a big advocate of occasionally supplementing any diet with vitamins and minerals and providing a bit of variety once in a while. I also think that feeding fillet strips from an adult salmon would be much more likely to be high in fats/oils than parr since the parr are growing rapidly and haven't accumulated rich fat stores, yet. In fact, the omega-3 fatty acid that salmon are so famous far is only accumulated at sea when salmon eat phytoplankton and/or the consumers of phytoplankton higher up the food web. Most of the fat can be trimmed off the mid-section of a fillet very easily.

[nessy]

crazyhedgehoge: is rainbow-trout okay? thanks!

[Sid]

Check Dr. Alan Francis web page. It has a receipe for home made Garter food and the main ingrediate is trout.

*Garter Snake Home Page - Alan Francis

Sid

[CrazyHedgehog]

As far as I know all trout does not contain Thiamine, (I use rainbow trout)

[Cazador]

Rainbow trout are a good, healthy food that lack thiaminase. Be sure to freeze them for at least three days, though to kill off the majority of parasites, and you'll be in good shape. Also, leave the bones in the fillets, but make sure they're not sharp and sticking out.

[GarterGuy]

Ok...so let me get this strait (I'm great at IDing, but this thiaminase stuff still kind of confuses me!)....you can feed garters frozen trout with out them sufferning from thiaminase problems?

[CrazyHedgehog]

Not a total expert but here goes...

Garter snakes need vitamin B to be generally healthy and digest food.

Thiamane seeks and destroys any trace of Vitamin B

So A snake fed on Thiamine rich fish not only get no Vitamin B from it, but any they had in their body is getting actively destroyed.

Whitebait, mackeral, goldfish all have thiamin...

Trout has no Thiamine.

Another source of B1 is gained from sunlight, but the weather in Britain is so un predictable that there is either not enough sun, or enough in 10 minutes to totally cook your snake..not good...

I think that mice are the best food source hands down, always had healthy snakes on just mice, but trout adds another food source that is readilly available and I am sure variety is the key!

Years ago, my first snake had a B1 deficiency fit, well several, a few injections and then the inclusion of suppliment powder, and a full recovery....but it was because I was feeding purely on whitebait..:-( that was what the store keeper had suggested at the time...
(OK, you lot, please correct anything if I have got that totally wrong)

[Cazador]

Good job, Crazyhedgehog. I'd just clarify that "thaimin" is a vitamin, but "thiaminase" is the enzyme that destroys thiamin (AKA vitamin B1), and that thiamin (vit B1) is a necessary part of an energy production pathway (glycolysis) that our body needs to produce energy (ATP). Thiamin is also critical for neural function. Without enough thiamin, a snake, frog, rabbit, dog, person... becomes weak, fails to reproduce, may suffer neurological problems (including seizures), fails to eat, loses weight, and may lose bowel control. In humans, this condition (due to insufficient thiamin levels) is called Beri Beri disease. Unfortunately, I've witnessed a snake die from this, and it is a very ugly sight, that is easily prevented by providing a healthy diet and occasionally supplementing with B1.
Rick

[Cazador]

Hey Nessy,
I wanted to follow up and see how your snake is doing? Does the skin on its head still look fresh and new?
Rick

[nessy]

hi rick, thanks for the consideration.
yeah she's fine, i think her skin has gone a little duller but still looks new.