Mouse Question

OregonHerpaholic · 03-09-2007, 11:32 PM

What is the long term effect of feeding gartersnakes a all mouse diet??

Rodents are not a natural part of most garter diets, so how do a high fat, high protein lifestyle effect their overall health?? I have seen other herps(large frogs and monitors mostly) that have been given a mouse diet..with very negative results...fatty liver disease, bone problems, etc.

Has there been any studies as to the long-term effect on this "captive" diet?

Do Tell

Billie

adamanteus · 03-10-2007, 03:05 AM

Hi Billie,

The jury is still out on that one! It seems that in this forum there are two schools of thought about the use (or over-use) of rodents. If you look for the thread "Rodent Diet" in the husbandry forum, you could see what people on here think about it. I don't know of any long term studies myself, but other, better read members might have more info on that.

snakeman · 03-10-2007, 04:04 AM

you definitely don't want to overfeed them on a rodent diet.I give my adult males one pink a week.my females one mouse a week.They always want more.Even with one a week they are still fatter than their wild caught cousins.

ssssnakeluvr · 03-10-2007, 06:55 AM

Scott Felzer has his on rodent diets. He has very healthy snakes!!!

mikm · 03-10-2007, 07:55 AM

good topic Billie ... I do not know of any 'studies' with factual data. For myself I think I am going to try and mix it up a little now that Roy (Garter Guy) mentioned that his garters enjoyed a 'can of slugs' available at pet stores. Personally I like feeding 'things' (people, reptiles, insects, etc.) ... lol

enjoy your day !!
marian

GarterGuy · 03-10-2007, 10:42 AM

I think when it comes to garters, as long as they're not overfed (as snakemanhad said) rodents can make up a large percentage of if not all of their diet. They're not the first non-rodent eating snakes to be raised on all rodent diets. Many of the kingsnakes and milksnakes (Lampropeltis sp.) that are kept and bred now are actually other reptile eaters (lizards and other snakes) and western hognoses (Heterondon nasicus) that feed primarily on frogs, toads and lizards have been raised over many generations on rodent diets. For me, it's a primary rodent diet, just because of ease and the assurance that the food item is healthy and free of parasites.....but I also like to offer them variety, mixing in home raised earthworms, fish (whether whole or fillets) and now I can add canned snails to that. I think what it comes down to is that many snakes can be considered generalist who specialize. What I mean by that is that they can and will eat just about anything, but due to the environment they live in and the other species with which they are competing with, they specialize in certain prey items. In captivity, they don't need to do this and can be given prey they normally wouldn't eat in the wild. Just my little swing on the whole thing.
Roy

Thamnophis · 03-10-2007, 06:10 PM

I only give one rodent per snake once a week in combination with smelt and chickenheart.

OregonHerpaholic · 03-10-2007, 07:21 PM

Thanks all.. I will be haunting the threads.. I do like to vary the diet, but since my large female has decided she will eat adult mice I give her, I would like to keep it as simple as possible..with the worms and extras as a treat.. BUT I just adopted 2 cb babies, and will be working on thier diet..But prefer not to chop up pinkies..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thamnophis

I only give one rodent per snake once a week in combination with smelt and chickenheart.

Is that what you are feeding?? I have seen your website(love it).. and could not for the life of me figure out what you were giving the garters.. What is the white stuff in the middle?? Some kind of calicum or just "filling"??

Quote:

his garters enjoyed a 'can of slugs'

I tried this stuff on my big red(oregon red-sided) and she wanted nothing to do with it.. HOW can I get my new babies to LIKE THE IDEA????????

BILLIE

abcat1993 · 03-10-2007, 08:39 PM

I feed about 66.6% worms and 33.3% mice. Nothing else. But he/she isn't very old (probably not even a year) so I don't have a clue on the long term effects. It seems to be doing good though, other than when he/she stopped eating.

Thamnophis · 03-10-2007, 10:19 PM

I guess you mean this picture...

That is a piece of chickenheart with some vitamine/mineral/calciumpowder on it.

03-09-2007, 11:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
OregonHerpaholic Never shed Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 34 Country:	Mouse Question What is the long term effect of feeding gartersnakes a all mouse diet?? Rodents are not a natural part of most garter diets, so how do a high fat, high protein lifestyle effect their overall health?? I have seen other herps(large frogs and monitors mostly) that have been given a mouse diet..with very negative results...fatty liver disease, bone problems, etc. Has there been any studies as to the long-term effect on this "captive" diet? Do Tell Billie __________________ Have You Hugged Your Herp Today??

03-10-2007, 03:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
adamanteus Moderator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cheshire. (Near Manchester). Posts: 6,690 Country:	Re: Mouse Question Hi Billie, The jury is still out on that one! It seems that in this forum there are two schools of thought about the use (or over-use) of rodents. If you look for the thread "Rodent Diet" in the husbandry forum, you could see what people on here think about it. I don't know of any long term studies myself, but other, better read members might have more info on that. __________________ James.

03-10-2007, 04:04 AM	#3 (permalink)
snakeman "First shed, A Success" Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: PA Posts: 104	Re: Mouse Question you definitely don't want to overfeed them on a rodent diet.I give my adult males one pink a week.my females one mouse a week.They always want more.Even with one a week they are still fatter than their wild caught cousins.

03-10-2007, 06:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
ssssnakeluvr "PM Boots For Custom Title" Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 1,478 Country:	Re: Mouse Question Scott Felzer has his on rodent diets. He has very healthy snakes!!!

03-10-2007, 07:55 AM	#5 (permalink)
mikm Subadult snake Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 355 Country:	Re: Mouse Question good topic Billie ... I do not know of any 'studies' with factual data. For myself I think I am going to try and mix it up a little now that Roy (Garter Guy) mentioned that his garters enjoyed a 'can of slugs' available at pet stores. Personally I like feeding 'things' (people, reptiles, insects, etc.) ... lol enjoy your day !! marian

03-10-2007, 10:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
GarterGuy Brother Snake Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lancaster,PA Posts: 1,355 Country:	Re: Mouse Question I think when it comes to garters, as long as they're not overfed (as snakemanhad said) rodents can make up a large percentage of if not all of their diet. They're not the first non-rodent eating snakes to be raised on all rodent diets. Many of the kingsnakes and milksnakes (Lampropeltis sp.) that are kept and bred now are actually other reptile eaters (lizards and other snakes) and western hognoses (Heterondon nasicus) that feed primarily on frogs, toads and lizards have been raised over many generations on rodent diets. For me, it's a primary rodent diet, just because of ease and the assurance that the food item is healthy and free of parasites.....but I also like to offer them variety, mixing in home raised earthworms, fish (whether whole or fillets) and now I can add canned snails to that. I think what it comes down to is that many snakes can be considered generalist who specialize. What I mean by that is that they can and will eat just about anything, but due to the environment they live in and the other species with which they are competing with, they specialize in certain prey items. In captivity, they don't need to do this and can be given prey they normally wouldn't eat in the wild. Just my little swing on the whole thing. Roy __________________ *Roy* 1.1 T.s.pickeringi 0.1 T.s.concinnus 0.0.2 T.s.pallidulus

03-10-2007, 06:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
Thamnophis Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,286 Country:	Re: Mouse Question I only give one rodent per snake once a week in combination with smelt and chickenheart. __________________ Kousebandslangen.nl - Member of the EGSA It is always advisable to be a loser if you cannot become a winner. Frank Zappa

03-10-2007, 08:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
abcat1993 Old and wise snake Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: North of Chicago IL, US Posts: 867 Country:	Re: Mouse Question I feed about 66.6% worms and 33.3% mice. Nothing else. But he/she isn't very old (probably not even a year) so I don't have a clue on the long term effects. It seems to be doing good though, other than when he/she stopped eating. __________________ 0.1 Jack Russell Terrier 1.0 rough skinned newt 1.0.0 eastern garter http://www.winnetka36.org/ci/ci_name.htm

03-10-2007, 10:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
Thamnophis Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,286 Country:	Re: Mouse Question I guess you mean this picture... That is a piece of chickenheart with some vitamine/mineral/calciumpowder on it. __________________ Kousebandslangen.nl - Member of the EGSA It is always advisable to be a loser if you cannot become a winner. Frank Zappa

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