PUGET Update (Vet Visit & more ;))

[Brian]

A couple of things about pudget sound garters (t.s.pickeringii) and northwestern garters (t.ordinoides).
The best way to differentiate them is by the head.
The eye size in proportion to head and bluntness of the head are the best characters to use.

sirtalis: large eyes and long head with defined neck. Much slimmer overall than ordinoides.
ordinoides: small eyes, blunt head, neck is not as well defined.
They are also very stocky looking snakes and don't get nearly as big as sirtalis generally.
They both usually have 7 upper labials.

The width of the stripes on ordinoides is useless in identifying them.
These snakes are one of the most highly variable in the Unitied states, perhaps only beeten by sonora semiannulata. These snakes can have thin stripes, thick stripes, two stripes, three stripes, one stripe or no stripe.
The stripes can range in color from white to yellow to orange to red to green to blue.
The background color can be, light brown, dark brown, green, black, spotted or not.
Jerimiah Easter had a poster on the net which has disapeared where he showed 15-20 different color varieties.
Alan St. Johns book, Reptiles of the northwest shows 6-7 variations.
Its not uncommon in Oregon to turn over a board and see three different
color variations. I have witnessed this myself.
Here are some pictures of some I found in one trip to the NW a few years ago.
Washington


Oregon




I have always thought it would be fun to breed the different color varieties of
ordinoides but many of the really cool forms are only found in Washington and it is illegal to collect snakes their period. When you consider that the blue phase of ordinoides and the blue pudget sound garters are only found in WA, it makes you wonder how legal the snakes are that "bob" is selling. I know people who
had inquired about getting permission to catch some garters in washington to breed and they were denied. They have a very strict no take policy on reptiles there, and the antics of people like "bob" won't help to ever get them changed.

Marian,
Sorry to hear about your snakes, but it sounds like they are doing much better.
I hope the little red spot guy you got from me is still doing well.

[Brian]

Here are four more Northwestern's.






Please don't steel any of these pictures.

Also, if a sirtalis and an ordinoides bred they would be hybrids not integrades.
They are not the same species. I think it is unlikely that they are hybridizing.

[Stefan-A]

Great pictures! I can see why you are concerned about people stealing them.

[Cazador]

Hey Brian,

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I can apply (and have applied) the characteristics to some of the pictures on this thread, but I'd really appreciate your assessment, as well.

Rick

[drache]

I was wondering . .
Aren't there laws around the treatment of animals here and perhaps a government agency to report people to?
This Bob guy should get something a bit more than ta civilized slap he can just shrug of.
In my opinion, even a hefty fine is too kind for that guy - he should be locked up along with the sex offenders.

[mikm]

hello Brian !!! So nice to hear from you. Not sure why I did not think to ask you directly about the Blues as you are the "west" guy Yes, all of my Red Spots are doing very well thanks for asking. The male I got from you was the first garter I have owned that ate pink parts right from the start, no scenting required He displays a nice, bright, pure orange color with his head coloring up nicely as well.

much thanks for your input on this Brian ... Enjoy your day !!!
marian

[ssssnakeluvr]

here's another coolpic of a nice looking northwestern......

[mikm]

hey Don ... wow, is that guy yours ??? in any event, thanks for sharing !!

marian

[Cazador]

Don,

That's one of the most attractive Northwesterns I've ever seen! What a snake!!!

Rick

[ssssnakeluvr]

Boy I wish it was mine!!!!!! I just happened to find the pic on the internet...collecting pics of garters... maybe someday....