Hi to all

Spiderqwan · 12-04-2006, 04:14 AM

Hello everyone my name is Ian and i'm from the UK I aquired my first garter this weekend Thamnophis marcianus. Strictly speaking he was bought for my ten year old son, who has name the snake Rocky, I wanted to name him Pliskin but my son wasnt impressed, not being a big Kurt Russel fan and all. So Rocky it is. I will post photos of our newest family member when I get the chance. On a food related matter, and i'm sure this has been posted a lot, the store owner where we bought Rocky from sold us frozen fish to feed him, with the advice that it would be all we would need, with occasional earth worms. Having researched a little into the correct diet for the garter the recurring theme seems to be as little frozen fish as possible as the freezing causes thiaminase resulting in a lack of thiamin. The store is quite reputable and they do seem to know what they are talking about, I would appreciate a little advice from you guys.

Stefan-A · 12-04-2006, 06:36 AM

Welcome aboard!

About the thiaminase, it's already in the fish and when you freeze the fish, the thiaminase will continue to break down the thiamine. It's not recommended to exclusively feed fish that contain it, but it is ok to do so once in a while if you don't have a choice.

ssssnakeluvr · 12-04-2006, 06:52 AM

Welcome to the forum. What kind of fish did you get for food? Theres a link in one of these posts about which fish are thiamine problem fish... The best would be to scent pinkies and get him eating them....more nutritionally complete (also, you can feed less often and have less mess to clean up).

Thamnophis · 12-04-2006, 08:41 AM

Hi Ian, welcome her on this nice forum.
I agree with Stefan-A... freezing does not prevent the thiaminase.

Spiderqwan · 12-04-2006, 10:03 AM

Thanks for the welcome and the advice i'll check on the fish type tonight when i finish work
Cheers guys

Cazador · 12-04-2006, 05:39 PM

Hi Ian,
Welcome to the forum. Fish are a fine diet (assuming you're feeding species that lack the thiaminase enzyme), but it's always good to give them a varied diet if you're primarily feeding fillets to ensure they get all the vitamins and minerals they need. You'll also want to add calcium powder with vitamin D to your fillets a few times per month.

Freezing won't affect the thiaminase enzyme, but heating fish over 180F for at least five minutes will destroy it. That doesn't really seem practical, though, because it will essentially cook the fish. The best thing is just to avoid feeding fish that contain thiaminase. Here's a link to a U.S. National Academy of Sciences report that lists fish with and without the enzyme. Just click anywhere on the table to get to the second page. Cheers,
Rick

http://newton.nap.edu/books/030903325X/html/64.html

GarterGuy · 12-04-2006, 11:10 PM

Howdy and welcome to the site. I'd say something about feedings and fish or thiaminase, but yeh.....it's already been pretty well covered.

12-04-2006, 04:14 AM	#1 (permalink)
Spiderqwan Never shed Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 30 Country:	Hi to all Hello everyone my name is Ian and i'm from the UK I aquired my first garter this weekend Thamnophis marcianus. Strictly speaking he was bought for my ten year old son, who has name the snake Rocky, I wanted to name him Pliskin but my son wasnt impressed, not being a big Kurt Russel fan and all. So Rocky it is. I will post photos of our newest family member when I get the chance. On a food related matter, and i'm sure this has been posted a lot, the store owner where we bought Rocky from sold us frozen fish to feed him, with the advice that it would be all we would need, with occasional earth worms. Having researched a little into the correct diet for the garter the recurring theme seems to be as little frozen fish as possible as the freezing causes thiaminase resulting in a lack of thiamin. The store is quite reputable and they do seem to know what they are talking about, I would appreciate a little advice from you guys.

12-04-2006, 06:36 AM	#2 (permalink)
Stefan-A The Prince of Insufficient Light. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Southern Finland Posts: 4,146 Country:	Re: Hi to all Welcome aboard! About the thiaminase, it's already in the fish and when you freeze the fish, the thiaminase will continue to break down the thiamine. It's not recommended to exclusively feed fish that contain it, but it is ok to do so once in a while if you don't have a choice. __________________ Natura non contristatur

12-04-2006, 06:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
ssssnakeluvr "PM Boots For Custom Title" Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 1,478 Country:	Re: Hi to all Welcome to the forum. What kind of fish did you get for food? Theres a link in one of these posts about which fish are thiamine problem fish... The best would be to scent pinkies and get him eating them....more nutritionally complete (also, you can feed less often and have less mess to clean up).

12-04-2006, 08:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
Thamnophis Moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,286 Country:	Re: Hi to all Hi Ian, welcome her on this nice forum. I agree with Stefan-A... freezing does not prevent the thiaminase. __________________ Kousebandslangen.nl - Member of the EGSA It is always advisable to be a loser if you cannot become a winner. Frank Zappa

12-04-2006, 10:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
Spiderqwan Never shed Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Manchester Posts: 30 Country:	Re: Hi to all Thanks for the welcome and the advice i'll check on the fish type tonight when i finish work Cheers guys

12-04-2006, 05:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cazador Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,608 Country:	Re: Hi to all Hi Ian, Welcome to the forum. Fish are a fine diet (assuming you're feeding species that lack the thiaminase enzyme), but it's always good to give them a varied diet if you're primarily feeding fillets to ensure they get all the vitamins and minerals they need. You'll also want to add calcium powder with vitamin D to your fillets a few times per month. Freezing won't affect the thiaminase enzyme, but heating fish over 180F for at least five minutes will destroy it. That doesn't really seem practical, though, because it will essentially cook the fish. The best thing is just to avoid feeding fish that contain thiaminase. Here's a link to a U.S. National Academy of Sciences report that lists fish with and without the enzyme. Just click anywhere on the table to get to the second page. Cheers, Rick http://newton.nap.edu/books/030903325X/html/64.html

12-04-2006, 11:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
GarterGuy Brother Snake Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lancaster,PA Posts: 1,355 Country:	Re: Hi to all Howdy and welcome to the site. I'd say something about feedings and fish or thiaminase, but yeh.....it's already been pretty well covered.

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