Thiaminase and a Hello to you all.

GGarter · 01-19-2007, 03:29 PM

Hello to you all.
I found this forum on the internet and i thought this would be a great place to learn more about keeping garters, as I am educating myself, prior to purchasing my first garter snakes.

I have several questions, but lets start with two of them:

I have been told that some fish species contains thiaminase, which breaks down the vitamine B1 in the snake, which in the long run, will result in a lack of B1 and thereby disease. Do any of you guys know where I can find a list or something, over some of the species of fish, that does or does not contain thiaminase?

My second question is about the terrarium/vivarium, whatever.
How do you keep your garters, and which problems have you come across, in connection with the chosen vivarium design?

I'm looking forward to being a part of this forum, as I read some of you guys posts and it was quite interesting.

Tore

suzoo · 01-19-2007, 07:02 PM

Hello and Welcome GGarter! I am sorta new here too, but it's a graet site with even greater people!
I don't have info on the fish, but I know some of these people will! And as for vivariums, mine is probably a lot more simple than the experts on this site. I just have a 55 gallon aquarium with store bought dirt & rocks on one side and water on the other. Some chunks of wood, and a big heat stone on the dry side with a screened tank lid and flouresant 5 foot bulb across the top. I have 7 Eastern Garters in there. And so far I have had no problems. I hope you enjoy this site as much as I have!

Cazador · 01-19-2007, 09:05 PM

Hi Tore,
Congratulations on finding the forum. I'm sure you'll like it here. I've been meaning to write a concise article about thiaminase for a while now, but in order to make it credible, I need to have find more, legitimate references. That's a fair amount of work, so I've been having trouble getting motivated about it (and because I have a ton of other work/writing to get done).

We've had a couple of pretty good discussions about thiaminase. For starters, I'd recommend reading this thread (first shed...), starting in the middle of page 5. Within this thread, you'll find a link called, "nutrient requirements for mink and foxes" or something like that. It will take you to a 2 page table that lists fish that have been analyzed for the presence of thiaminase.

If you still want to know more, after reading this thread, you can search the forum for thiaminase by hitting the "search" link in the dark green bar under where it says "Welcome GGarter" in the top right corner. Then type in the keyword "thiaminase," and off you go. Feel free to ask any more questions about it, if this doesn't satisfy your curiosity.

I'll leave the enclosure question to everyone else. There are a lot better set-ups out there than I have. I just use glass and plastic enclosures, but there are some really awesome ones out there. Again, welcome to the forum.
Rick

Snaky · 01-20-2007, 04:00 AM

Welcome to the forum!

For the enclosures I would have a look at the threads in this section: section. You can find quite some nice enclosures there. I personally keep couples in 100x50x50cm enclosures with some nice possibilities to clime a bit. Whatever you do, keep in mind that the bedding needs to be dry. You may have quite a large waterbowl, but a wet bedding will bring you into trouble with your snakes.

CrazyHedgehog · 01-20-2007, 04:27 AM

Hello...
Here is the link to the fish lists...
one lot WITH Thiamine...
and one lot WITH NO thiamine....

Nutrient Requirements of Mink and Foxes,

Sid · 01-20-2007, 05:07 AM

Hi Tore and welcome to the forum.

For a garter enclosure I recommend a 20 gallon aquarium or the equalant. A 10 gal. will do fine if it is a small speciman. I like to have a minimum length to equal the length of my snake. It will need to be in an area with a 75-80 F. temp or have some type of heat source, hide spots and it's very important the enclosure be escape proof. A water bowl can be shallow, but needs to be something not easily tipped over.

Hope this is some help.
Sid

GGarter · 01-20-2007, 06:04 AM

thank you for the nice welcome, and for the great tips about Thiaminase.

I used the link and found the file but I could not open the file, it (my webbrowser) claimed that it did not exist...

A shame as it was exactly what I was looking for...

looking forward to beeing a part of this forum!

Tore

KITKAT · 01-20-2007, 11:54 AM

Here ya go! (Shhh! I "lifted" it from the advertisement)

KITKAT · 01-20-2007, 05:19 PM

and...

Gijs & Sabine · 01-21-2007, 03:48 AM

Welcome from Holland, Tore !!! Enjoy this great site.

01-19-2007, 03:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
GGarter "Preparing For First shed" Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 73 Country:	Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. Hello to you all. I found this forum on the internet and i thought this would be a great place to learn more about keeping garters, as I am educating myself, prior to purchasing my first garter snakes. I have several questions, but lets start with two of them: I have been told that some fish species contains thiaminase, which breaks down the vitamine B1 in the snake, which in the long run, will result in a lack of B1 and thereby disease. Do any of you guys know where I can find a list or something, over some of the species of fish, that does or does not contain thiaminase? My second question is about the terrarium/vivarium, whatever. How do you keep your garters, and which problems have you come across, in connection with the chosen vivarium design? I'm looking forward to being a part of this forum, as I read some of you guys posts and it was quite interesting. Tore

01-19-2007, 07:02 PM	#2 (permalink)
suzoo Juvenile snake Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Missouri, USA Posts: 169 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. Hello and Welcome GGarter! I am sorta new here too, but it's a graet site with even greater people! I don't have info on the fish, but I know some of these people will! And as for vivariums, mine is probably a lot more simple than the experts on this site. I just have a 55 gallon aquarium with store bought dirt & rocks on one side and water on the other. Some chunks of wood, and a big heat stone on the dry side with a screened tank lid and flouresant 5 foot bulb across the top. I have 7 Eastern Garters in there. And so far I have had no problems. I hope you enjoy this site as much as I have!

01-19-2007, 09:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cazador Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,608 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. Hi Tore, Congratulations on finding the forum. I'm sure you'll like it here. I've been meaning to write a concise article about thiaminase for a while now, but in order to make it credible, I need to have find more, legitimate references. That's a fair amount of work, so I've been having trouble getting motivated about it (and because I have a ton of other work/writing to get done). We've had a couple of pretty good discussions about thiaminase. For starters, I'd recommend reading this thread (first shed...), starting in the middle of page 5. Within this thread, you'll find a link called, "nutrient requirements for mink and foxes" or something like that. It will take you to a 2 page table that lists fish that have been analyzed for the presence of thiaminase. If you still want to know more, after reading this thread, you can search the forum for thiaminase by hitting the "search" link in the dark green bar under where it says "Welcome GGarter" in the top right corner. Then type in the keyword "thiaminase," and off you go. Feel free to ask any more questions about it, if this doesn't satisfy your curiosity. I'll leave the enclosure question to everyone else. There are a lot better set-ups out there than I have. I just use glass and plastic enclosures, but there are some really awesome ones out there. Again, welcome to the forum. Rick

01-20-2007, 04:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
Snaky "PM Boots For Custom Title" Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,468 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. Welcome to the forum! For the enclosures I would have a look at the threads in this section: section. You can find quite some nice enclosures there. I personally keep couples in 100x50x50cm enclosures with some nice possibilities to clime a bit. Whatever you do, keep in mind that the bedding needs to be dry. You may have quite a large waterbowl, but a wet bedding will bring you into trouble with your snakes.

01-20-2007, 04:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
CrazyHedgehog "Preparing For Fourth shed" Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 718 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. Hello... Here is the link to the fish lists... one lot WITH Thiamine... and one lot WITH NO thiamine.... Nutrient Requirements of Mink and Foxes,

01-20-2007, 05:07 AM	#6 (permalink)
Sid Thamnophis Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,360 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. Hi Tore and welcome to the forum. For a garter enclosure I recommend a 20 gallon aquarium or the equalant. A 10 gal. will do fine if it is a small speciman. I like to have a minimum length to equal the length of my snake. It will need to be in an area with a 75-80 F. temp or have some type of heat source, hide spots and it's very important the enclosure be escape proof. A water bowl can be shallow, but needs to be something not easily tipped over. Hope this is some help. Sid

01-20-2007, 06:04 AM	#7 (permalink)
GGarter "Preparing For First shed" Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 73 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. thank you for the nice welcome, and for the great tips about Thiaminase. I used the link and found the file but I could not open the file, it (my webbrowser) claimed that it did not exist... A shame as it was exactly what I was looking for... looking forward to beeing a part of this forum! Tore

01-20-2007, 11:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
KITKAT "Fourth shed, A Success" Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 820 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. Here ya go! (Shhh! I "lifted" it from the advertisement) __________________ KitKat "Acts of kindness should never be random."

01-20-2007, 05:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
KITKAT "Fourth shed, A Success" Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 820 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. and... __________________ KitKat "Acts of kindness should never be random."

01-21-2007, 03:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
Gijs & Sabine "Third shed, A Success" Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kudelstaart Posts: 525 Country:	Re: Thiaminase and a Hello to you all. Welcome from Holland, Tore !!! Enjoy this great site.

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