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Thread: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

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    Hi, I'm New Here! Speedmark's Avatar
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    Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    Hi I was wondering, can subspecies conceive of spring?

    I just saw my yearling male Thamnophis eques vergatenius lock with my adult female Thamnophis sirtalis infernalis.
    I have my 2 couples garter snakes housed together in one cage.
    The vergatenuis are yearlings and my infernalises are adults.

    Because my adult male infernalis is a lazy bum and not in the slightest interested in the female, and the young vergatenuis is all over her.
    My female has just shed and now they are locked.

    Does anyone know more about this?
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    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    Hey Speed, t.e. vergatenius and t.s. infernalis don't usually meet naturally as breeding pairs. So, I think having them lock and may mean you will be producing a hybrid animal from the pairing. A better pairing would be with another opposite sexed infernalis and another t.e.vergatenius or t.e.obscurus. Even another Mexican garter subspecies. It may be better to consider housing the females together in one enclosure. And the males in a different one if you are considering a breeding project or you want to avoid this in the future. I mean , I don't know if this was something you wanted or not. Anyway, welcome to the forum. Nice to have you here.
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    Hi, I'm New Here! Speedmark's Avatar
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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    Thanks for the reply Albert.

    I get it that they come from different locations in the wild, and I'm not planning to breed hybrids.
    The adult infernalis male was not interested in mating with the adult infernalis female, so I just tought I was not going to have a litter this year.
    The Thamnophis breeder I got the snakes from told me that T.sirtalis, T.eques, T.marcianus (all the subspicies) could not conceve ofspring so he said it's oke to house them together.
    Does anyone know if this is true? (The guy really has a lot of knowledge of the garter snakes so I believe him, but now that they mated I really want to know for sure.

    The virgatenuis I have are very young so I thought the male was not sexually active yet, but boy was I wrong.

    Thanks for welcomming me! (I still have to update my profile hihi.)
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    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    Then if that's the case I say go with that. Certainly hemipenal structures vary and are compatible with only certain female structures. That I really can tell you for sure. If you saw them locked then I would think that they are compatible and could reproduce. I will try to research it and come back with any pertinent information I find. I would definitely ask the breeder if they locked does that mean there will be no hatchlings to worry about..
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    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    The other thing is t. Marcianus and t.s. infernalis are not subspecies at all and t.e.virgatenius are not subspecies. T.s.s. is a species of which t.s.infernalis is a subspecies but t.e.virgatenius and t. Marcianus are classified differently.
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    Hi, I'm New Here! Speedmark's Avatar
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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    Thanks, I would really appreciate it!
    Yeah good Idea, I'm going to mail the breeder.

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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    I would bet that different species of garter snakes could produce hybrid offspring. Certainly stranger snake hybrids have been created.

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    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Jeff B's Avatar
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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    Who is the breeder that told you that? Hybrids certainly have been produced before, but not sure how easy or how often that actually occurs, versus number of attempts.

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    "PM Boots For Custom Title" Albert Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Clark View Post
    The other thing is t. Marcianus and t.s. infernalis are not subspecies at all and t.e.virgatenius are not subspecies. T.s.s. is a species of which t.s.infernalis is a subspecies but t.e.virgatenius and t. Marcianus are classified differently.
    Speed, this statement i made is actually incorrect. Sorry, the thing is, T.Marcianus, and T.E. virgatenuis have their own sub species that is not in the species of the common garter snake T.S. T.S includes T.S. infernalis is in the Common garter snake species.
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    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Can different subspecies conceive of spring?

    What's done is done but I would never house different sexed different species together. Nature finds a way to continue things on. No offense but I hope the mating didn't take and no hybrids are born.
    Steve
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