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Thread: Morph Timeline

  1. #21
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    Quote Originally Posted by RicMartin View Post
    Jason, do you have a date, place, name, or photo to go with that Aztec occurrence? I think I've only seen one Aztec photo.
    Why don't you just ask Scott. He seems to have all the answers you seek. Or you could just have faith in what is written in some book by one author, that says garters eat insects. Same difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by RicMartin View Post
    Thanks Jason. I think we will end up with a striped Aztec lineage soon, we know that it is there as a possibility, and we know animals who are likely to carry the gene. I think it's just a question of time.
    Well now I've just made a mistake then. I actually took what was written on some website Scott Felzer's Garter Snakes, specializing in aberrant garters as fact because it was repeated by so many people. Well sheeat. See how that works? It's the same "social engineering" phenomenon that cause so many people to think that garter snakes eat insects.

    "Unfortunately the lone Aztec female in the collection passed away in brumation in the winter of 2010/2011"

    So many people, including myself, (hear a "fable" or "urban legend" often enough, from enough people and you start to believe it) took this to mean that there was only one, now it's dead, and the trait was never produced or seen again. I know that's not what he said, but it's worded in such a way that most people would get that impression.

    But anywho, the site also says: "The Aztec was first produced from a seemingly normal Illinois plains garter in 2009 and acquired by Joe Peck"

    You know, it's kind of ironic. Joe and I just talked on the phone recently and conversation centered mainly on this "Mohr Anery" and the "Aztec". He never once, in private or even in public, tried to "claim" this as a morph or take credit. Some people do that consistently even though there is nothing to be claimed yet. Theres even a price on them, before they exist. You know, to get it pounded into peoples subconcious early on, as to what they should be valued at.

    I know it seems to the simple minded that I have a problem with Scott, or anything personal against him. I assure you, I have not even interacted with him enough for that to happen. Pay attention to the issues I am trying to bring focus on. It's not about Scott. It's about the rest of it. It's about the morphs, marketing, and who the "collective" goes to for their "facts" and information. Too much speculation and reliance on sources that I believe are not necessarily accurate.

    I would not rely on a really talented professional clown for information regarding the entertainment and overall happiness of child upbringing. Would you? The clown may know how to make your children smile and like him, and laugh for a moment, but in the end he's just a clown. Your kids would soon get bored or even annoyed by his antics and not longer find him so funny or entertaining. His show would get old and it wouldn't be entertaining any longer.
    Last edited by ConcinusMan; 09-09-2011 at 11:31 PM.

  2. #22
    Subadult snake Chondro788's Avatar
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    Here is a pic of the little male "Aztec". Wish I would have kept him, but you can't keep them all. This male was produced from a wild caught female from IL. The adult female is in my collection, but I am not holding out alot of hope for this "morph". I beleive the aberrant pattern we see in this animal is just natural occuring. It could also have something to do with stress during gestation, we have seen this in boas, although some striped boas are in fact genetic, alot of striped boas have been produced by normal parents, and never been recreated even with line breeding. Anyways, thats just how I see it. It would have been neat to breed the male back to his mother in hopes of producing more Aztec, but oh well.

    Hey Steve, since you have seen ALOT of radix, is this something you see from time to time?



  3. #23
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    Not that pattern.
    That being said I did have a strange runt radix born that seemed to have an extra lateral stripe. She only lived a short time after birth.
    The snake pictured appears similar. I still have her in the freezer. I might have to thaw her out for some photos.
    Beautiful snake.
    Steve
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    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
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  4. #24
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    I did have this little female born awhile back. She was a runt and didn't live more than a few hours after birth.
    Looking at the snake you have pictured I can see some similarities in the neck area(in my opinion).
    I still have this snake in the freezer.
    This would have been an interesting snake if it had lived. I don't see much normal radix in it at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by guidofatherof5 View Post

    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  5. #25
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" BUSHSNAKE's Avatar
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    shannon had a sibling to the aztec..it looked like nothing else ive seen, it only had the stripes...no pattern at all

  6. #26
    Subadult snake RicMartin's Avatar
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    Jason, thanks for that great photo & info. It looks like stripes in garters are more complex than just a recessive gene, which makes for a great breeding challenge. Good luck with it. I don't doubt we will figure it out.

    I know that in milks the aberrant gene is cumulative, tending to stripes, but in a messy 'artistic' way; and egg stress can cause it, but it can also be passed genetically. We will find out how it works with garters.

    Richard, we have heard your point, & noted it already. Listen to yourself, man.

    That extra striped female was gorgeous, Steve, and her photo helps a lot; thanks very much. Sorry she passed.

    Ric
    T. radix ~ L. t. hondurensis ~ P. reticulata ~ F. catus ~ C. l. familiaris
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  7. #27
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" BUSHSNAKE's Avatar
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    jasons animal came from Shane Costello(think thats his last name) Shane caught the female in River Grove Ill, Cook County

  8. #28
    Subadult snake RicMartin's Avatar
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    Wow. I bet Shannon has picts of that one. It sounds like a possible Aberrant-Vanishing Patern double whammy.

    Ric
    T. radix ~ L. t. hondurensis ~ P. reticulata ~ F. catus ~ C. l. familiaris
    ricmartn@gmail.com

  9. #29
    Subadult snake Chondro788's Avatar
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    Quote Originally Posted by BUSHSNAKE View Post
    jasons animal came from Shane Costello(think thats his last name) Shane caught the female in River Grove Ill, Cook County
    Right on Joe, thanks, I was still searching for his name.

    Dang Steve, that little runt was a beauty!!! How cool would she have been as an adult!!

  10. #30
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    Re: Morph Timeline

    I think there was more going on with Steves little one than just unusual pattern and striping. It almost looks like the scales aren't quite right too.

    Do you think it's possible that some of these unusual snakes that seem to pop up randomly and don't prove out, could actually be coming from the father? as in, maybe he looks normal but has some sort of defect when producing sperm? Maybe the genetic material is mutated in the sperm instead of being passed down by gene exchange?

    I mean, I've seen this happen with Pomeranians. If the father is rather old, he starts throwing pups that have problems. Genetic problems. But has to do with his sperm, not his genes.

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