Need help Identifying Oregon snake, Wild Albino garter?

[-MARWOLAETH-]

<-- NUMPTY! *facepalm* I say male

[AlbinoSquiggle]

Aren't those pictures of the same snake?

LOL yea... One with flash and one without. Either way it's gotta be a male or female.

I'm still way too new to this.

[guidofatherof5]

Female, both. Nice taper.

[ConcinusMan]

wandering garter, and looks like a t+ albino. easterns and radix aren't in oregon. very nice find!!!

I answered this on facebook first. Not a wandering. Scale configuration is all wrong and there aren't enough upper labial scales. The head has all the characteristics of T. ordinoides.

I've never felt comfortable doing ID's on the garters of the northwest. I originally said I thought this was an albino wandering garter but am now leaning towards an albino Northwestern (T.ordinoides).
I sent Richard a PM to see if he'll take a look at it.
If it is a albino Northwestern it is a very rare snake.

That is correct. I'm sure it's a T. ordinoides. The past few years have been just incredible for albino ordies. Two T- albinos found in the last two years, and now this albino, making it three now that are in captivity but the location of one is unknown.

It's not only rare, but it's the first T positive northwestern ever found that I'm aware of, and certainly the only one in captivity. The last suspected T Positive (found in Kent, WA last year) turned out to have 8 upper labials so that one is a wandering garter, not a northwestern.

I'm pretty sure it's a female, and it's a T positive albino Thamnophis ordinoides. Sounds like you're caring for it properly. Keep up the diet of night crawlers and slugs. NO RED WIGGLERS /TROUT WORMS! They can benefit from damp hides and really don't need much heat. A basking area of 80-85 is good enough but the cool end should be in the low 70's. Better to keep them too cool than to error too warm. I sincerely hope some effort will be made in the future to breed her but I think she's too young/small right now.



Those are all northwestern garters. Note they have the same spotted pattern and head pattern as your albino. If there was one albino in your yard, there might be more and certainly some normal looking snakes (hets) that carry the gene. The baby had to inherit the gene from both parents in order to show the trait.

I have forwarded the report and photos to Dr. Robert Mason, Professor of Zoology, OSU so it can be recorded. This might be the first report of this type of albino in this species. All others that I'm aware of, were very pale T - albinos with no spotting, just yellow stripes.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

That is very cool! I will make breeding her a priority when she is old/big enough. I don't have enough room or time to breed many other snakes but I will collect some others from the yard this spring to find her a male. I also have my dad on the look out around his house, which is also in Eugene. Last summer he found a bright orange snake under a board but didn't bother messing with it. I asked him to catch them this year or call me to come catch them.
I have made an effort over the last 4-5 years to encourage snakes in the garden to keep out pests. This summer I could see 3 or more a day when I would tend to the garden. At the edge of the garden is a fairly large rock pile that they love to hang around.
The picture that has quite a few snakes in it was only a portion of what I had caught over the summer. I found so many babies roaming the yard and garden but the majority looked nearly identical in pattern and color so didn't interest me as much. I also didn't want to have so many snakes that I couldn't care for them all so I limited myself.

Ohh and I meant to ask, If I keep feeding earthworms and slugs should I still use a vitamin supplement? Or are the slugs and worms close enough to a natural diet to be healthy or simply to survive?
If it's bare minimum for worms and slugs then I will make sure I grab some vitamins tomorrow. I want her long, lean, and healthy.

[guidofatherof5]

It is definitely best for her to wait until she is mature. Don't rush the breeding.
She is important and keeping her healthy is best.

[ConcinusMan]

Last summer he found a bright orange snake under a board but didn't bother messing with it.

That was most likely a northwestern ringneck snake. Very common in the southern Willamette Valley. You can hardly lift any debris without finding them or several early in the warm season. I don't recommend trying to keep them. They can be difficult and would just hide all the time even if they did do OK in captivity. Hard to keep alive and not very rewarding if you do manage it.

I have made an effort over the last 4-5 years to encourage snakes in the garden to keep out pests. This summer I could see 3 or more a day when I would tend to the garden. At the edge of the garden is a fairly large rock pile that they love to hang around.
The picture that has quite a few snakes in it was only a portion of what I had caught over the summer. I found so many babies roaming the yard and garden but the majority looked nearly identical in pattern and color so didn't interest me as much. I also didn't want to have so many snakes that I couldn't care for them all so I limited myself.

Ohh and I meant to ask, If I keep feeding earthworms and slugs should I still use a vitamin supplement? Or are the slugs and worms close enough to a natural diet to be healthy or simply to survive?
If it's bare minimum for worms and slugs then I will make sure I grab some vitamins tomorrow. I want her long, lean, and healthy.

It sounds to me like your yard is probably a den area. They're probably spending the winter under those rocks. So, you would see a lot of snakes concentrated in the area particularly in spring and fall. But if you keep the grass high and keep plenty of cover vegetation around where slugs can hide, then you'll have snakes around all summer. That's about all you can do to encourage them but it sounds like they already live there.

I wouldn't worry about the supplements. Can easily do more harm than good. I rarely, if ever use them. If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. She should grow well and do just fine on what you're already doing. Just keep up a steady supply of worms and slugs as best you can, and feed rather frequently. Others might have a different opinion but mine is that they don't need the supplement. Northwesterns can live long healthy lives on just worms and slugs. It helps with nutrition if the worms are feeding on rich organic composted matter such as composted leaves but other than that, I wouldn't worry about it.

If the snake is eating well and has had several complete sheds in one piece which means she's growing and healthy, then don't do anything different. She looks to be in perfect health to me.

The only other thing I can say is don't keep cycling in new snakes from the yard in and out, and certainly don't keep them like you have in that photo. Keep her by herself or with one or two other apparently healthy snakes. Overcrowding and failing to quarantine from others outside can encourage and spread disease. Especially watch out for blister disease. These snakes are very prone to it. Keeping them on constantly damp and/or dirty substrate causes small white fluid-filled blisters to form on their underside so watch out for that and treat it early if does appear. Keep the substrate dry and that won't happen.

[AlbinoSquiggle]

I wouldn't worry about the supplements. Can easily do more harm than good. I rarely, if ever use them. If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. She should grow well and do just fine on what you're already doing. Just keep up a steady supply of worms and slugs as best you can, and feed rather frequently. Others might have a different opinion but mine is that they don't need the supplement. Northwesterns can live long healthy lives on just worms and slugs. It helps with nutrition if the worms are feeding on rich organic composted matter such as composted leaves but other than that, I wouldn't worry about it.

If the snake is eating well and has had several complete sheds in one piece which means she's growing and healthy, then don't do anything different. She looks to be in perfect health to me.

The only other thing I can say is don't keep cycling in new snakes from the yard in and out, and certainly don't keep them like you have in that photo. Keep her by herself or with one or two other apparently healthy snakes. Overcrowding and failing to quarantine from others outside can encourage and spread disease. Especially watch out for blister disease. These snakes are very prone to it. Keeping them on constantly damp and/or dirty substrate causes small white fluid-filled blisters to form on their underside so watch out for that and treat it early if does appear. Keep the substrate dry and that won't happen.

Thanks you so much for the great information!!!
I was kinda worried after reading about supplements and I didn't want her to have a calcium deficiency or anything of that nature. Somewhere I had read that slugs help to provide that calcium naturally and have been including slugs in her diet every since.

All of her sheds were in complete pieces and with some more great advice from others on here, I changed out the substrate so hopefully that will help prevent the blisters. I also tend to keep them more on the dry side than on the wet side, they aren't fish after all.

I will definitely keep any other snakes in quarantine for a month or so before introducing them but I felt that the 3 I kept was more than enough for the 10 gal tank I have.
After the discussions here I will be searching for large used tanks to give a better home as they grow. I don't want to risk cannibalism so I will make 3 the max per home but if I can I will have Gary a home all her own.

[guidofatherof5]

Garters seem to (like/have less stress) when they have a buddy.

[ConcinusMan]

There is no cannibalism in northwesterns but you should be careful about feeding in groups. they tend to fight and injure each other, causing mouth infections.

Now I'm just wondering how long it's going to take before this one disappears short of breeding age. All the others have.