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  1. #1
    "Preparing For First shed" Maleko's Avatar
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    "Flame" variant?

    I live in the Pacific Northwest and occasionally we'll go to the beach to look for garter snakes. There's a colony of Wandering Garter Snakes and we love to search for them in the rocks on the beach. One day I saw one of these garters that was red-orange, as opposed to olive green. Same pattern as the wanderings, just red. Is this a flame variant of this subspecies? Are "flames" a common color variant?

  2. #2
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" BLUESIRTALIS's Avatar
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    Re: "Flame" variant?

    Sounds like a flame phase / red phase coast garter to me!
    Bluesirtalis

  3. #3
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: "Flame" variant?

    T. s. sirtalis (Flame Eastern) doesn't range anywhere near the Pacific Northwest.

    On the other hand:
    T. s. concinnus (Red-spotted garter snake)
    T. s. fitchi (Valley garter snake)
    T. s. infernalis (California red-sided garter snake)
    T. e. terrestris (Coast garter snake)
    all range in that area.


    Range maps compliments of "The Garter Snake - Evolution and Ecology" by Rossman, Ford and Seigel



    Steve
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    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
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  4. #4
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" BLUESIRTALIS's Avatar
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    Re: "Flame" variant?

    THIS IS WHAT SOME PEOPLE CALL A FLAME PHASE COAST GARTER.
    Bluesirtalis

  5. #5
    T. radix Ranch guidofatherof5's Avatar
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    Re: "Flame" variant?

    Quote Originally Posted by BLUESIRTALIS View Post
    Sounds like a flame phase / red phase coast garter to me!
    Sorry, I miss read your post.
    Steve
    5 awesome kids!
    Emmy, Kale, Molly, Gabby, Hailee
    They are not just snakes. They're garter snakes.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/thamnophis14?feature=mhee

  6. #6
    "PM Boots For Custom Title" BLUESIRTALIS's Avatar
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    Re: "Flame" variant?

    No need to apologize Steve! I didn't think you meant anything towards my post, but that you was just pointing out that it couldn't be a flame eastern! When garter enthusiast here flame garter we jump straight to easterns or at least I do, but some people out west call the red sided coast garters flames and the ery looking ones are just called red coast!
    Quote Originally Posted by guidofatherof5 View Post
    Sorry, I miss read your post.
    Bluesirtalis

  7. #7
    "Preparing For First shed" Maleko's Avatar
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    Re: "Flame" variant?

    Been looking through picture of Coast Garters and that's definitely what she was. Looks just like them. I just thought it was kind of odd to see only one in a community almost exclusively composed of Wandering Garters. I would imagine there are more out there, she's just the only one I've actually seen around there.

  8. #8
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    Re: "Flame" variant?

    Couldn't be flame. Second thought was red spotted color phase T. sirtalis pickeringi or T. sirtalis concinnus. Where exactly did you see it? if it has 8 upper labial scales it's coast garter. ssp. of T. elegans. If 7 uppers, it's 1 of 3 t. sirtalis subspecies.

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