breathing click noise ! help!

[ConcinusMan]

That's funny, when he's talking about it, the snake is getting ticked off and striking at him.

[tstill14]

First of all thanks to all of u for Ur responces, they brought down my stress level a ton. And as for how the are housed, they are housed in a old Sprint cell phone buffet case, with floresent bulbs so the bulbs don't get too hot and hurt them if they came in contact with the bulb. I spent a couple weeks snake proofing it. Any how they are on news paper that I layed down and I clean that every 2 days along with their water. They have 2 hides, one on the warm side and one on the cool side. And I use a heating pad in the cage but is covered with a thin layer of particle board so they can't touch the pad its self. The pad covers half the cage. And they are housed together.

However prior to that, they had the same set up in a clear rubermade contaimer about half the size of their current home. It had poor ventilation and condinsation build up pretty badly on the sides of the container. But that's why they got their nice home now. I thought the other home was too damp and small. They were only in there for a week tops though (5 days). But still maybe he or she aquired a lung cold of some sorts in that small amount of time.

Another thing I wanted to bring up was the fact that someone mentioned that I May have a male and female on my hands. but I'm not sure of that. I'm also not sure what kinda garter they are and if they are of the same class because the little guy has different markings then the bug guy but only on his sides. They do however sport the same color line down the middle of his or her backs but the little guy unlike the bug guy has no stripes on his sides. I have pics of both snakes and their home that I will try and post on my stupid smart phone, who desided that these devices were smart in the first place lol. Any how let me know what u all got to say and ill do my best here at home to better take care of my snakes.

[ConcinusMan]

Markings and color are highly variable with Northestern garters, (polymorphism) if that is indeed what you have. There are laterally (side) striped ones and ones with only dorsal (back) stripes too. There's even stripeless ones. Many colors and patterns, even among the same population or litter. Pics would be nice and would help to confirm species and sex.

[HazAnga]

I'd see about changing from the newspaper substrate, the ink can rub off and even cause problems, so finding another substrate could be a good idea.

[tstill14]

Here are the pics!

sorry they are so small, hopefully u can make everything out.

is there any way i could make them any bigger for you folks?

[ConcinusMan]

The pics are very small, making it difficult to say with certainty, but given the location you indicated earlier, I'd say that T. ordinoides (Northwestern Garter Snake) is the most likely candidate. The big one is definitely a female. Not sure about the other.

Here's another really old and large laterally striped female I found this year. She passed away not long after having a litter of babies for her new owner, Don Belnap.(ssssnakeluvr) Her babies are doing well. She's the orange striped snake sitting with Oregon Red Spotted garter snakes (T. sirtalis concinnus)



Here's some variety of them, all found near each other:



My red stripe girl. She was gravid (pregnant) at the time:


Here she is with an erythristic (exceptionally red) male. Note the difference in body type between the male and female. Females are thicker and their tails taper abruptly.

[ConcinusMan]

You can probably accurately sex them after reading this. Northwesterns are very easy to sex visually. Read this and then tell us what you think you have. I already know the big one is a girl for sure:

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/bree...xing-pics.html

Unless your camera has a higher quality setting, increasing the size of those pics you already took, won't help. They'll just blur. No biggie. I still say you have northwesterns and one's a girl.

[tstill14]

Thank you again. I cant thank you enough for your help. And now that you have pointed out the type of garter, now I need to focus on the sex. I am looking at them rite now I'd have to say that the smaller snake is more then likely a male due to the lack in sudden tapper near the end of his tail. However I am no expert and I am going to put better/bigger pics up for you all to see more clearly. And befor i get off here i got one last question. assuming the smaller guy is a male how can i get them to bread? I have a Friend who loves garters and wants a baby to raise for her own. Is there anything I can do to make their home more comfortable or just more suitable for that to happen ? and they always! I repeat always! hang out together and relax in the same hide together, does that already mean they have bread? because the girl has deffinantly gotten bigger since I have owned her, but not to drastically.

NOTE: I don't have a computor at my appartment so the pics may have to wait till tomarrow, but ill do my best to drag my lazy butt back to my parents for access to a computor haha.

One more thing I would like to know is how can I get my snakes to eat fish, mice or other foods because they just turn their noses up to anything but earthworms. I would like to get them on a once a week mice diet but they refuse them every time. even pinkies or the ones that just opened their eyes. I even tried rubbing the mice in worms to sent them but that didnt work ether.

BTW thoes were some very nice looking snakes

[ConcinusMan]

Once northwesterns get accustomed to and get a preference for a specific food, (usually slugs, worms or both) it's very tough to get them to eat anything else. Very tough. They aren't easily fooled by scenting tricks. This is not really a problem as long as you have a year 'round supply. They are slow growing snakes that don't get very big and can live long healthy lives on worms alone but the fact that worms aren't very dense means they need to be fed often. Several times a week, even as adults.

As far as their breeding habits go, a female may mate in spring (after brumating), fall, or both but each female usually prefers to choose one season or the other. She often mates with several males in late Feb or early march, or she'll do so in the fall, say, October. With the fall breeders, it's the colder nights and shorter days that triggers breeding and it usually happens as they are gathering at the dens to spend the winter. The majority of them mate very early in the spring and give birth in July or August.

Yours is a wild caught female. She may very well already be gravid, or else is holding sperm from previous matings that is still viable. The sperm can be viable for up to 3 years so she could have babies during that 3 years, without mating. Normally you would have to keep the pair at around 50 degrees all winter and warm them in the spring. At that time they usually mate. The female can choose the timing of the birth regardless of when the mating happens. She can hold back ovulating until she's ready. I've seen northwesterns give birth first thing in the spring, and I've seen them give birth in late summer. In captivity, offspring can come at any time but mating usually takes place spring or fall, which means you would need to simulate the seasons.

This is what it looks like when a male is interested in mating with a female. In this case, it was fall but this girl didn't let him. Perhaps she'll change her mind in the spring or she'll skip mating and become gravid anyway. She is currently brumating. Piles, or "mating balls" consisting of hundreds if not thousands of northwesterns can be found at den entrances, doing this, in spring or fall. If you see that, you have found a den where they spend the winter.

[tstill14]

I got one word for that. Wow . I dnt know that about snakes Untill now. 3 years, that's a long time. Very helpful thanks a lot.

So even being that it is super hard to get these westerns to eat anything else then there favored food, is there a good method you could recommend to get them on mice? I'm as persistant as they come so lay it on me.