Hello Again. Possible RI?

[Kadabasaur]

Basically my checkered garter snake Pandora, she's around 4 years old, and she's been great since I got her. About a week ago she hissed at me when I went to check on her. [I just run my finger along her body and she normally just pops out and says hello, this is the first time she's hissed at me] So I looked over her and noticed she was pretty dull, she must be shedding and pretty grumpy. I noticed she was more lethargic than usual, and whenever I run my finger down her body after this she wasn't really moving at all. Its like her body raised up to my finger, and her head done this boppy up and down thing. She has never done this before either. I contacted my breeder and he said it was just her communicating with me. I also noticed huffy noises, kinda like she was sighing at me? The sighing noises are now continuous and extremely loud.

She ended up shedding perfectly, and I fed her. I normally leave the fishies/pinky parts on a plate and she goes up and gets them cause she's extremely fiesty when eating. She didn't go for it at all. So I got the tweezers and put it to her mouth and she ate it fine, except I had to do this with every bit. She ended up not eating it all either.

She's in a 4ft glass vivarium, with plenty of hiding spaces and aspen bedding. Heated by a heatmat, controlled by a thermostat. Her hot side sits at 26 c and her cold side is 20c.
She's fed on smelt and small pieces of pinkies. [shes terrified of mice for some reason lol] I give her a punch of Nutrobal dusted over her food every 4 weeks also. Since this incident I have taken her to the vets last friday. She heard the noises and said they're definitely coming from the lungs. She also put her on an antibiotic, which she's had twice. She gets a injection every 72 hours. I don't know if this is early in the treatment but I've seen no improvements at all. Its almost like she's getting more lethargic. I tried to feed her the other day, she did eat but it was like she couldnt push the fish down her throat, and resulting in alot of worrying squeaks. She did manage to get it down but I couldn't bring myself to give her another. Im worried that its not an RI and something else. Her mouth is clean, and I haven't noticed any mucus or bubbles around her mouth at all. She's not lost any weight either. The only thing is the breathing noises.

I've also raised her temps to 32 c on the hot side, and shes about 24 on the coolside. I've also bought a 2.0 UV light.

Does anyone have any ideas? Should I be seeing any improvement at this point?



I added photos of her enclosure, and one of her.

[Albert Clark]

Hey Kad, welcome back to the forum. Sorry about the dilemma. That is a beautiful snake and enclosure you have there. Sounds and looks like you are doing all the right things. Your husbandry seems correct too. You know snakes don't get sick all of a sudden they usually have been harboring a illness for some time b4 we notice it. Consequently, they don't get better right away either. Especially with a RI that can be multiple bacteria at play. A vet who is a certified exotic vet (specialist) with reptiles may begin treating a animal with a certain antibiotic/s and may suggest to you to get a culture and sensitivity test of the animals trachea (windpipe) to be sure the animal is on the right antibiotic/s. However, vets will sometimes shoot from the hip in most cases when prescribing and give a broad spectrum antibiotic to see if that works first. In most cases the animal won't show improvement right away bc that is the nature of the beast with reptiles. They don't heal or get well quickly. I think you should give it some time first but i would certainly contact the vet with my observations and feelings. Maybe this is a viral pathogen and not bacterial. The only way to really know will be to hold off and let the medication run its course. Then if the symptoms persist and you still see no improvement then a culture and sensitivity test to identify the offending organisms needs to be done and the specific antibiotic prescribed. Hope this helps and she is on the road to recovery.

[guidofatherof5]

Is her breathing labored? Is she taking deep breaths all the time? Is her mouth agape at all? Any mucus from the mouth or nose? Is she soaking a lot? What about her eyes, are they bright/glossy and reactive to movement? What about tongue flicking, is it normal?
Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a baseline to work with so I can make some suggestions. If you have a Vet. I'd suggest a check up to see if they spot anything.

[Albert Clark]

The one thing i didn't see in your husbandry numbers was the humidity percentage. Checkered garters are a southwestern species but they do require a small to moderate amount of humidity about 45- 55%. So, consider a hygrometer to monitor your humidity. Too low and or too high of a humidity gradient is not good . Have to find a happy medium. LOL. Happy medium based on the species of the animal. In this case of course it's T.marcianus.

[guidofatherof5]

Respiratory Tract Infection in Reptiles

[Kadabasaur]

No mucus or gaping. She done a weird thing where she put her head next to her body and started opening her mouth slightly but that was at the vets so it could just be stress. She's not really been soaking at all. I'm worried she's not been drinking. She's still tongue flicking. Her eyes have a shine and seem to be responsive.
Another thing I've noticed is shes moving her head up and down insanely quickly.

I'll look into getting a humidity reader thingy in the meantime to check that. I've not really thought about humidity.

Here's a video I took just 5 minutes ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XLB...ature=youtu.be

The vet is fantastic but she's not a specialist so I'm trying to see what other things is could possibly be other than an RI.

Should I still try to feed her?

Any other ideas or something else I could look into her doing would be great.


I've added higher quality photos too.

[guidofatherof5]

I would say Pandora is moving and acting very normal in that video.

[Kadabasaur]

Really? She has been really active today which is a good sign, although her weird breathe noises are still there.

Its weird because she's sometimes super active, then other times she's very, very lethargic.

[Kadabasaur]

ok never mind I just heard noises coming from her cage and she had her head turned fully back showing her bottom and started moving around backwards. I'm insanely worried now.



edit - I think she's damaged her jaw, she can't seem to close it now.

what do I do here?

[guidofatherof5]

Damaged her jaw, how?