Time for Brumation?

[BUSHSNAKE]

Not horrible but it is dangerous. It might be natural for some snakes but we have no idea how many wild snakes die from brumation. We certainly have had our share of knowledgeable breeders that have lost snakes for some unknown reason.

Infact...why dont you take a picture and post what it says for us, not all of us are knowledgable breeders like the people you know

[Peterra]

You have the Evolution and Ecology book dont you Steve. Go read the last paragraph on hibernation on page 113.

I do not have that book, can you let us know what it says, please? Very interested in the academic literature on garters et al similar to garters.

[Peterra]

This is how people brumate their garters. Theyll give them a dry substrate and a water bowl and throw them in a fridge. Many find their garter snake living in the water bowl.

Sorry but I do not follow what you are saying. That is an experiment describing several different protocols, all of them quite different than what you stated; nevertheless, maybe you can be more explicit about the temperature, humidity and other parameters that you use. Also, your number of successful repetitions of same conditions and same outcome will be illuminating.

On a different note, I think that we all want the same outcome, learning what is best for our snakes. So, I think we are all open to be proven wrong and learn something new and better, wouldn't that just make your and your snakes day?

[BUSHSNAKE]

I think there should be a "how to brumate your garters" thread

[Albert Clark]

Infact...why dont you take a picture and post what it says for us, not all of us are knowledgable breeders like the people you know

Actually i read the paragraph you are referring to Joe and it says "juvenile snakes may follow adult pheromone trails to locate dens for the first time". Key words here are "juvenile" and "may". There is a difference between a 30 day old snake (neonate) and a "juvenile" 6mos. up to 1yr. old. Especially a 30 day old snake that probably has only had the number of meals you can count on one hand. We all know what we don't know Joe. No need to attack the knowledge or lack of in any case of anyone. "Juvenile" kind of refers to a animal who is also well started with adequate fat reserves and nutritionally stable. Other key word "may" denotes that a juvenile may or may not follow adult pheromone trails.

[Albert Clark]

I think there should be a "how to brumate your garters" thread

Maybe you should be more specific and title it " How to brumate your 30 day old garter who is refusing meals". That is where the discussion and controversy lies in determining brumation over so many other possibilities for inappetance or feeding interruptions in 30 day old snakes.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Actually i read the paragraph you are referring to Joe and it says "juvenile snakes may follow adult pheromone trails to locate dens for the first time". Key words here are "juvenile" and "may". There is a difference between a 30 day old snake (neonate) and a "juvenile" 6mos. up to 1yr. old. Especially a 30 day old snake that probably has only had the number of meals you can count on one hand. We all know what we don't know Joe. No need to attack the knowledge or lack of in any case of anyone. "Juvenile" kind of refers to a animal who is also well started with adequate fat reserves and nutritionally stable. Other key word "may" denotes that a juvenile may or may not follow adult pheromone trails.

Wrong paragraph.

[BUSHSNAKE]

Update:
Nicole is still not eating but her skin has started to have a shine to it so maybe she has to shed? Her eyes haven't turned blue yet though. I don't think it has anything to do with desiccation because her terrarium stays at a constant 80f and 60-70% humidity w/ a large water bowl

If it doesnt start to eat soon i would still recommend giving it a cooling period. Not a full blone brumation like you would an adult but if you keep it at 80 degrees and its not eating it will start to dehydrate. You can simply take it off any heat. Keep it in a cool area and make sure it stays hydrated. Any snake born that late in the year can be a challenge cuz your fighting its natural insticts
I personally dont think brumation is dangerous. Ive never had many problems with it to the point that i wouldnt do it. It has helped in your type of situation. If done right it doesnt matter how old the snake is. Garters in general can be a pain in the butt. The do seem to have a higher mortality rate then other snakes but thats a part of keeping garter snakes and alot of the times has nothing to do with brumation.

[Albert Clark]

Wrong paragraph.

It's the right paragraph as it pertains to the OP question on brumating a neonatal garter who only missed a couple of days between meals. Because Steve and i were all on the page that snake is too young and nutritionally not ready. If i understand you correctly you're saying age and nutritional status have no bearing on consideration to brumate in the captive terrarium?

[Albert Clark]

Bushsnake says "If done right it doesnt matter how old the snake is".

This statement cannot be true nor does it show consideration for fragile, baby snakes that don't have the nutritional stores to endure brumation.