Unexpected sausage

[katach]

Good luck Greg.

[gregmonsta]

Nothing new to report this morning .... Orange messes but no more signs of potential babies ... contractions appear to have stopped .... she'll get a proper once over after work

[PINJOHN]

clicked on to this thread with the highest expectations ... absolutely gutted to read the above posts, nobody puts more in than you Greg this is an unwelcome example of just how perverse nature can be....so sorry

[guidofatherof5]

Sorry to hear this news.
Hoping Fawn makes a speedy recovery.

[gregmonsta]

It's just one of those things mate. I thought from the start that it would only be slugs so the 'stillborn' was a bonus. She's also still quite young at 2.5ish years old. I know her bits are working though ... a good sign for the future and some positive high hopes for next time.

On another note - extra info on the 'stillborn' - very kinked along one side of its body, and possibly alive until birth. Touching it produced nerve reactions, the tongue potruded and retracted once but no breathing was observed. It was a male - the hemipenes everted shortly after delivery (un-aided). I took some pics last night and I'll try to post them later today.

Ponderings - Not sure what to do with Fawn now - brumation is out of the question so shortly after birth. I'm guessing I'll have to keep a vigil through the year and monitor her weight. I should probably do a short brumation for the male and then shack them up together in April ... No idea.

[EasternGirl]

Greg...so sorry to hear there wasn't a better outcome for Fawn. I really had my hopes up for the beautiful girl this time. Lets just hope she has some babies in her future....and if not, she is still a wonderful, gorgeous girl that brings you much joy and that is what really matters . Poor Andy...guess there will not be a new snakey . We better get to work on getting a snake for Andy!

[gregmonsta]

Some squeezings above.

Here's the 'almost':

[chris-uk]

Not the best outcome. I think it's a case of keeping her fed up to get her weight back on, then brumate her in the autumn to line up a more successful breeding season next year. If you shack them up again before brumating Fawn she's going to be using old ova, perhaps what she needs is a good brumate to stimulate fresh ova production. And Sod's Law would have it that she'd show signs of gravidity just as you're preparing to brumate her if you put them together again this year.

[EasternGirl]

Poor little baby...he looked like he was a good size...sorry you didn't make it little fella . Sorry Fawn...better luck to you next time girl.

[gregmonsta]

Not the best outcome. I think it's a case of keeping her fed up to get her weight back on, then brumate her in the autumn to line up a more successful breeding season next year. If you shack them up again before brumating Fawn she's going to be using old ova, perhaps what she needs is a good brumate to stimulate fresh ova production. And Sod's Law would have it that she'd show signs of gravidity just as you're preparing to brumate her if you put them together again this year.

I'm pretty sure vitellogenesis is triggered by bodymass and not brumation in thamnophis . It's the males that need the cold snap more for better sperm motility/viability. The way she's been going there's nothing to say she won't naturally try again in 3/4 months time once she's all fed up again. I'm inclined to let her mate to make sure it's not yet another wasted effort, I'm still trying to decide actually, I'm not 100% for it yet but I may put Slithers in the cupboard just in case.