Was a bit worried about a new arrival.

[pitbulllady]

Nerodia will not be the next big thing.
They are already illegal in CA and it would not surprise me if they became illegal elsewhere where they are not native.

Like Bullfrogs, they are an invasive threat where they are not native - an invasive threat that can do considerable damage to local fish, amphibian, and reptile fauna.

Just about EVERYTHING is illegal in California, including ferrets, hamsters, gerbils and many other species that are a staple of the pet trade. Why would it make any sense to ban Nerodia while allowing sales of really exotic snakes and lizards from other parts of the world? Are Corn Snakes and Rat Snakes permitted as pets? Are THEY native to California? Not the last time I checked, they weren't. I'm not advocating that, since you know that my belief is that the most dangerous words in a democratic society are "there ought to be a law". It's scary to me, living on the opposite side of the continent, that anyone would look to California as an example of animal-related laws. The HSUS and PETA are pretty much in control of the law makers there when it comes to animal-related law. I'm honestly surprised that cats and dogs are legal, but then, there have been two attempts to force mandatory spay/neuter of all cats and dogs over the age of four months, statewide, ignoring the huge upsurge in shelter uptake and abandonments wherever these laws have been passed locally, so the effort is at least underway to prevent the breeding and selling of those animals within the state of CA, for their own good, of course. Now, to be fair, there are a lot of states back east where it's illegal to own NATIVE snakes, including Georgia. You can't have a Water Snake there, or a Corn, or a Chain King, or an Eastern Garter or Ribbon, not even a captive-bred morph. And, pretty much every legislative term, my home state of SC has to do battle with all-around "exotic"-banning bills backed by several AR groups. It's like an insidious cancer, really.

[FunkyRes]

Just about EVERYTHING is illegal in California, including ferrets, hamsters, gerbils and many other species that are a staple of the pet trade.

Hamsters are legal here.

Why would it make any sense to ban Nerodia while allowing sales of really exotic snakes and lizards from other parts of the world? Are Corn Snakes and Rat Snakes permitted as pets? Are THEY native to California? Not the last time I checked, they weren't.

African clawed frogs were banned after they became established.
American Bullfrogs are still legal
Nerodia were banned after they became established (several localities) - corn snakes are a far more common pet yet they are not established, so something about our ecosystem probably interferes with establishment of corn snakes in the wild.

Nerodia OTOH have not only become established, but have become established in the California Valley dangerously close to Giant Garter Snake populations.

One of the factors with Nerodia is that they do not make great pets. Despite experiences relayed here, they can be extremely nasty and they really stink. So they frequently are released. Now they are breeding in several locales.

I'm not advocating that, since you know that my belief is that the most dangerous words in a democratic society are "there ought to be a law". It's scary to me, living on the opposite side of the continent, that anyone would look to California as an example of animal-related laws.

Our laws are better than, say, Georgia - but yes, we do have some restrictive laws. Ferrets are illegal because of fear that they will become established and damage farmland. Gerbils are illegal I believe because they fear they will become established in the desert and harm some desert species. Nerodia have the same issue, and the fact that there are several established Nerodia populations warrants their banning in the pet trade.

We (keepers) screwed up. We did not discourage newbies from keeping them, and now they pose a threat to an already seriously threatened native Garter Snake.

[Stefan-A]

Ferrets are illegal because of fear that they will become established and damage farmland.

Well that's two dots I'm having a bit of trouble connecting. Farmland?

[FunkyRes]

Well that's two dots I'm having a bit of trouble connecting. Farmland?

Yes - California has quite a bit of farmland. The entire Sacramento River Valley and San Joaquin River Valley are largely farmland. Our specialties are fruits, nuts, and rice - but we grow lots of other stuff too, quite a bit of corn for example. We also have a lot of livestock - including chickens, and I believe it is chicken that have the biggest issue with ferrets.

[Stefan-A]

Yes - California has quite a bit of farmland. The entire Sacramento River Valley and San Joaquin River Valley are largely farmland. Our specialties are fruits, nuts, and rice - but we grow lots of other stuff too, quite a bit of corn for example. We also have a lot of livestock - including chickens, and I believe it is chicken that have the biggest issue with ferrets.

Well, it would have to be the chickens, since ferrets are obligate carnivores. "Strange" that nobody's worried about what the livestock might cause.

[FunkyRes]

Well, it would have to be the chickens, since ferrets are obligate carnivores. "Strange" that nobody's worried about what the livestock might cause.

Actually there is concern, at least in more recent history. Cattle grazing in some areas is limited and regulated because it is believed that over grazing has contributed to toad declines, etc. But back to Nerodia and invasive species, not all species have demonstrated an ability to become invasive. Nerodia has, hence the ban on them. Three different species have become established, so it is a very adaptive genus. They are working on extirpating one population now and hopefully will extirpate others. With our serious decline in native frogs, several species of garter that are endangered or threatened, several species of fish that are endangered or threatened, the additional pressure of Nerodia is something we do not need. They were not banned in the state until after they demonstrated their invasive nature.

Their invasive nature may also become a problem in states that natively have Nerodia as non native populations would compete with and possibly hybridize with native (like what has happened in CA with our Tiger Salamanders - most remaining populations are actually hybrids). I expect Nerodia may become banned in the pet trade in many states before too long.