Quote Originally Posted by kibakiba View Post
Well, not to go too much off topic and bring up something that could rile people up... But, the bible says the earth started from 2 people. So wouldn't that technically make us all brothers and sisters, cousins, uncles, aunts, etc if that were true? That would be inbreeding at its "finest".
And a talking snake convinced one of them, a rib-woman to eat a forbidden fruit out of a magical tree and that's why we get periods and snakes are "evil". It's probably a good idea to not bring that up here.

Anyways...... there is so much I could say here... but i don't feel like typing 6 paragraphs. so... to summarize...

- I don't like it when people want to make garter hybrids or intergrades. (btw, the offspring of this pairing would be intergrades) I like garters in their pure form.

- I will tell people I don't like it but I also respect their right to do what they want with their animals. I don't like it one bit and i'm not afraid to tell people that, and why I think they shouldn't do it.... but anyone who doesn't respect a keeper's freedom is being hypocritical. We as herpers get all up in arms when our government tries to pass laws to ban this and that and we don't want the government and the "not snake people" telling us what we can and can't have... what we can and can't do. The same should apply within our community, as long as the animals are not suffering, it's not really my right to say "you can't do that!". I can state my opinion but I should not try to force it down your throat.

- Many qualified people in the scientific community do not even consider subspecies to be valid. To some, those two snakes are the same snake in different color forms. Not that I agree with that... but, it is what it is.

- A personal observation of mine. Take the striped morph of plains garter snake, you know... the one that is lacking those checkers that break up the patterning on the snake. I used to own one myself. Compare it to a normal plains garter of similar coloration. Now. Take a tetrataenia..... and compare it to an infernalis of similar coloration. What do you see? You see the exact same differences and similarities, right down to the fact that the tails on both striped individuals is often barred after the vent! Why do not more people consider that tetrataenia is an offshoot population of infernalis that for some reason, favored the striped morph pattern mutation of infernalis and they just kept breeding and this trait became favorable and thus.... the san-fran became what it is today! This is not unknown to happen... it's a bit similar to how we see populations of sirtalis that lack any striping whatsoever, except the san-fran is apparently far enough along into it to have made it to subspecies.

- I completely agree with keeping tetrataenia illegal in the US. Keep them as illegal as possible... and make it a HUGE offense to be caught with one. it's the ONLY way people will somewhat leave them the hell alone in the wild. And I agree with whoever made the point of... if this was a butt ugly, drab looking snake... people would not make nearly as big of a deal about not being able to keep them. You hardly ever hear anyone saying how they wish they could contribute to conservation of T gigas by keeping them in captivity. You only hear that once for every 20 times you hear someone say it about tetrataenia... the truth is that keeping and breeding animals in a private collection does not contribute in any way to conservation of a species. They are ina private collection and will remain so. They are about as natural as the glass box they live in. Sure, maybe after they are all dead in the wild then you can cling to them a little longer but they will eventually die out in the hobby as well due to inbreeding. If we want to contribute to the conservation of species, then we support programs who actually do this by working to protect natural habitat and fend off destruction of it.

- IMO.... tetrataenia is doomed... because people suck on a lot of levels.... from doing things like mixing them with other snakes in europe, to the fact that the general population does not give a damned about any snakes, let alone a garter snake and is never going to change. The world is rotten to the core and it sucks but it's reality. Species die out all of the time because people don't care. I feel that at this point, the only thing people can do is slow down how long it takes for them to die out. When it comes down to it.... everything will die out some day, including humans.... as our earth's time is not infinite.

I still wrote 6 paragraphs anyways... go figure.

Stefan.... you WOULD be a foul bachelor frog.

I see what you did there.