In Breeding

[johnc79@hotmail.com]

Is there anyway we can have a uk thamnophis stud book? With the growing interest in garters in recent years surely this would work??

[gregmonsta]

Is there anyway we can have a uk thamnophis stud book? With the growing interest in garters in recent years surely this would work??

Have the interest but am very limited time-wise, at least until August next year. We'd have to work out an appropriate pro-forma for us to add and tabulate our bloodlines. This would get very expansive, very quickly depending on levels of participation and really would need to be managed almost on a regional scale. Every breeder also needs a clear system for ID of litters and certificates to pass to buyers.
It has the danger of becoming too detailed for the average hobbyist.

[johnc79@hotmail.com]

Have the interest but am very limited time-wise, at least until August next year. We'd have to work out an appropriate pro-forma for us to add and tabulate our bloodlines. This would get very expansive, very quickly depending on levels of participation and really would need to be managed almost on a regional scale. Every breeder also needs a clear system for ID of litters and certificates to pass to buyers.
It has the danger of becoming too detailed for the average hobbyist.

I can't pretend to be as technically minded as you but I'd be willing to do my bit. I would of thought there would be enough of us to make it work with all uk species. I have the paperwork for mine and do not mind been transparent with my collection .

[chris-uk]

Have the interest but am very limited time-wise, at least until August next year. We'd have to work out an appropriate pro-forma for us to add and tabulate our bloodlines. This would get very expansive, very quickly depending on levels of participation and really would need to be managed almost on a regional scale. Every breeder also needs a clear system for ID of litters and certificates to pass to buyers.
It has the danger of becoming too detailed for the average hobbyist.

What does a studbook need? I've not seen one in action, but making some guesses...

- Every snake has a unique ID, which remains constant regardless as to the current owner.
- Basic details for each snake which won't change (DOB, sex, parents, breeder).
- Current details for each snake (current owner, weight/length on a particular date)
- A record of each mating or attempted mating to identify the other snake in the pair.
- A record of each litter (total born, total live births).

- Each keeper has a unique ID.
- Basic details about each keeper.
- Contact details for each keeper.

- A form to register a snake.
- A form to transfer ownership of a snake.
- A form to update the current details of the snake.
- A form to record the death of a snake.
- Search interface to enable anyone to find useful information in the studbook.

Systematically, it's not a huge task to build something that would do the above and allow the studbook to be searched. For example, using my company's software I could have a studbook up and running in a couple of days (whether I'd be allowed to use company resources is another matter entirely and with a system that cost real money to build and host you open a can of worms as to who is responsible and pays for it).
However, the value of the system would be limited by the number of keepers and breeders who didn't use it. Like Greg, I have the interest but not the time, but I think the majority of people keeping snakes (even garters) wouldn't care enough to use a studbook and keep it up-to-date.

If the EGSA have a studbook couldn't UK garters be part of that? I've not joined the EGSA because I don't speak any German and the majority of the association's business is carried out in German (not everything is translated, and almost all forum posts are German).

[CrazyHedgehog]

would this not be something that the IHS should look into? maybe to help strengthen the reputation of herping etc?
do other reptiles have this in the UK? does it depend on how protected they are? if I had tortoises and bred them, would I not need to prove they were captive bred?

[johnc79@hotmail.com]

would this not be something that the IHS should look into? maybe to help strengthen the reputation of herping etc?
do other reptiles have this in the UK? does it depend on how protected they are? if I had tortoises and bred them, would I not need to prove they were captive bred?

It's a great idea. I've been a member of the west midlands branch for a couple of years now but they do not have the interest in garters like we do. I guess it would not hurt to ask and quite rightly it would be something positive for the hobby. Saying that I do think the only way would be us thamnophis people to pull together . I'm thinking it does not have to be that complicated . For example if there was only 6 keepers interested , they swap details of there animals and if 1 keeper had a snake from one breeder he could loan it to another with a different background . (I think that makes sense??long day!). People keep records of breedings ect and swap young with the appropriate keepers. This is only an idea in my head so not full proof just a suggestion.

[Invisible Snake]

Is there anyway we can have a uk thamnophis stud book? With the growing interest in garters in recent years surely this would work??

I think that would be a great idea. I've seen this done with corn snakes, I've included a link as an example ACR - CCC'S WINDJAMMER