Potential shed issue

[guidofatherof5]

Could a retained shed damage the fresh skin underneath?

I would say it is possible. Constriction in a localized area.

[d_virginiana]

Those pictures are almost exactly how Harley's scales looked after I got the scales off (and still looks). Wrinkly, and almost ruffled up. Except her skin isn't dry, which I believe is because after trying high humidity and soaks, and still getting no progress, I had to use vegetable oil to finally get them off.

New issue though, she regurgitated water twice today when I picked her up to check on her. Do you think this is just due to stress and the fact that she really doesn't want me messing with her any more for awhile? I still haven't got the eyecaps off, but I'm afraid of continuing to mess with her if she is so stressed that she's regurgitating...

[guidofatherof5]

Those pictures are almost exactly how Harley's scales looked after I got the scales off (and still looks). Wrinkly, and almost ruffled up. Except her skin isn't dry, which I believe is because after trying high humidity and soaks, and still getting no progress, I had to use vegetable oil to finally get them off.

New issue though, she regurgitated water twice today when I picked her up to check on her. Do you think this is just due to stress and the fact that she really doesn't want me messing with her any more for awhile? I still haven't got the eyecaps off, but I'm afraid of continuing to mess with her if she is so stressed that she's regurgitating...

I think you called it right. I try to avoid handling any of my snakes right after they've been drinking.
Unless this become a reoccurring event I wouldn't worry to much.

[d_virginiana]

She was near her water bowl at the time, so I imagine she had just been drinking or something and I didn't realize it.

I'll keep an eye on it just in case though. I have yet to get the eyecaps off, but I feel like those could probably wait another day or two at least so she can calm down some. There are still some scales in the 'belly' just below her head (probably five or six scales), and the scales on her lower jaw, lips, and eyes haven't come off yet either. I got most of everything down to the cloaca, but there may be sections of the tail that didn't come off. Would it be okay to give the 'shedding' process a rest for awhile considering those are the only regions left?

[chris-uk]

To me, she sounds like the whole shedding experience has stressed her (not surprising really). The areas you say are left aren't ones that are going to kill her if they stay on (the crucial bit you have left is the eyecaps) so you're now in a position of weighing stress against the shed. Personally, if she's showing signs of stress then I'd give her a break for a day and try the eyecaps, then give her another break before trying the rest.
Also, if she's regurgitated water twice in a day, that means she's had a drink, brought it up, and felt the need to drink urgently enough to try again. Sounds like she needs to drink, so giving her a break will let her do that and take the water in before you stress her again.

[d_virginiana]

Okay, quick update.

Today when I picked Harley up to check on her, she crawled around on me for a minute before kind of burbling up a little bit of water. Not exactly regurgitating, but close. So I went ahead and put her back in her tank. I would avoid handling her altogether, but with her acting so oddly I feel like I need to check on her closely at least once a day. Her scales finally seem to be hardening up a little bit, but with the continued almost-vomiting water I'm thinking I need to wait a bit longer on the eyecaps still. She's moving around more today, and is moving more normally. You can tell she isn't comfortable exactly, but she's not 'scooting' as much as she was.

So here's my theory on the water thing... I think that when I removed the shed, it may have already started to fuse or something, so the skin underneath was very soft and a bit damaged when I got it off. I've noticed her drinking very large amounts of water during this whole process, sometimes just sitting in her dish and drinking for minutes at a time. I believe that the regurgitation isn't her being sick so much as that she has been drinking so much, and it's the stress of being held while her scales are still sensitive and uncomfortable and the stress of being messed with so much that is causing that.
But a day or two ago, I noticed that the urates in her poo were almost orange. This happened twice. So I started going in every couple hours and putting her in her water and reminding her to drink. Since then, the urates have returned to looking white and normal. I realize that this could mean either kidney damage or dehydration. Since she is having no other symptoms of kidney issues and drinking lots of water seems to have helped the issue, I'm thinking it was dehydration.

My theory is that she was getting very dehydrated due to the incredibly soft, damaged skin not retaining water as much as the typically harder scales would (seriously, her skin felt like human skin for a few days. it's just now starting to feel like a reptile again) I know there's not a huge amount of fluid transfer through the skin in snakes, but imagine how much fluid you would lose if you pulled bandaids off every inch of your body. It's not a lot of damage, but when it is over your entire body it would cause you to lose a lot of fluid until all the little unnoticeable tears in your skin could be repaired.

Do you guys think that sounds reasonable? I just think this might help anyone else who may be dealing with a bizarre shed issue or anything else to do with potentially fragile skin or skin damage.

EDIT: In regards to the urates. She has been 'going' a lot even with little to no actual poo and just urates. So the amount of urate coming out is staying pretty proportional with what seems to be an increased amount of water going in.

[guidofatherof5]

Spoke to Steve Schmidt last night and he wanted me to caution you about using any heavy oil on the snakes eye caps. He said that he remembers an article about using oil by the Philadelphia Herpetological Society and that it can remove more then just a retained shed. He feels if there are retained eye caps it would be safer to let her shed them off in the next cycle.

Do you see signs/evidence of a retained eye cap/s? If you don't I would not attempt removal. You don't want to run the risk of damaging the new brille (eye cap).
Just my thoughts.

[d_virginiana]

Well, I don't think anything was shed other than what I helped her shed, so her eyecaps are probably still on. I haven't messed with those yet, but thanks for the warning. I'll just let those shed off next time. I figured the oil might have contributed to how damaged the skin was on the body, so I was a little worried about putting anything on the eyes. Only reason I used it on the body was because I couldn't get anything started otherwise.

I'm still worried about her, but she didn't regurge any water today. I offered her food, but she didn't want any. Not really surprising, but she did look interested in it for a few seconds.
Oddly, some of the scales that I missed are starting to flake off on their own. I think now that she's feeling like moving around more she's starting to scrape off the remaining bits on her own.

[guidofatherof5]

Keep us posted on her progress.

[d_virginiana]

Will do.

I just keep second-guessing myself on whether or not I did the right thing in going ahead with manually removing the shed. If it wasn't ready to come off I feel like it wouldn't have come off so easily... But even though I'm pretty paranoid, I think she's passed the danger period and is recovering. I can start to feel the ridges on the scales hardening up again and she definitely feels better today than she has been.