Garter vs. Corn (round 2 ;)

[GartersRock]

You are only 14 Reed??

[tyflier]

...I vote for a Mexican Mountain Kingsnake. Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri ...

A Mexican Mt. King is a Lampropeltis mexicana mexicana.

And I would not recommend any Mt. king species(mexicana, pyromelana, zonata) nor would I recommend ANY of the mexicana complex(thayeri, greeri, mexicana) or even and alterna as a first snake. They are quite docile and generally quite small. This much is true. But they can also be a right pain in the hind quarters as far as being picky and going off feed in the winter. They also tend to be less hardy and not quite as forgiving of beginner mistakes as cornsnakes are. Small errors in humidity and temperature regulation *could* be very detrimental, especially to greeri and thayeri.

Alterna seem better suited to beginners, given the extremely harsh and variable climates they natively habituate...but they can be picky S.O.B.s and go off feed for no apparent reason even under good conditions.

All in all...I agree that the mexicana complex(including alterna, even though they have been elevated) and the Mt. kingsnakes are among the most beautiful naturally occuring snakes available. I just don't agree with them as a beginner snake, unless the beginner has close access to someone with experience they can rely on for help and insight...

[sschind]

A Mexican Mt. King is a Lampropeltis mexicana mexicana.

And I would not recommend any Mt. king species(mexicana, pyromelana, zonata) nor would I recommend ANY of the mexicana complex(thayeri, greeri, mexicana) or even and alterna as a first snake. They are quite docile and generally quite small. This much is true. But they can also be a right pain in the hind quarters as far as being picky and going off feed in the winter. They also tend to be less hardy and not quite as forgiving of beginner mistakes as cornsnakes are. Small errors in humidity and temperature regulation *could* be very detrimental, especially to greeri and thayeri.

Alterna seem better suited to beginners, given the extremely harsh and variable climates they natively habituate...but they can be picky S.O.B.s and go off feed for no apparent reason even under good conditions.

All in all...I agree that the mexicana complex(including alterna, even though they have been elevated) and the Mt. kingsnakes are among the most beautiful naturally occuring snakes available. I just don't agree with them as a beginner snake, unless the beginner has close access to someone with experience they can rely on for help and insight...

A quick google search for Mexican Mountain Kingsnake actually turns up no results. I found several hits for the Mexican kingsnake being listed as Lampropeltis mexicana mexicana but I have also found several hits for L.m.m listed as the San Luis Potosi kingsnake and I have never heard the SLP kingsnake referred to as a "Mexican Mountain Kingsnake" Perhaps both are accepted common names for this snake. It would appear that the more commonly accepted common names for the Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri would be either the variable kingsnake or Thayer's kingsnake but I found no listings that would indicate that Mexican Mountain Kingsnake is or is not an acceptable common name for L.m.t. I have seen it listed as such in a couple of places and I seen no evidence that it is an incorrect usage of a common name. However, I am not an expert in the field of taxonomy or the usage of common names so if you say that the Mexican Mountain Kingsnake is in fact L.m.m rather than L.m.t then I will defer.

Regardless, My experiences obviously differ from yours. I have sold hundreds of kingsnakes and corn snakes and I have not had a single report of either of the kingsnake species being any more difficult than the corns. As I said, I would not recommend the pyromelena for reasons I have indicated but I have not had any of same experiences experiences with the variables that would change my opinion. It has been my experience that once the baby L.m.t are established feeders they are every bit as reliable as the corns. You obviously have experience with this group of snakes, quite possibly much more experience than I, but that doesn't change the fact that my experiences indicate to me that a Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri would in fact make an excellent choice for a beginner snake. My thayeri's and pyro's are kept in a rack system right next to my corns and I have noticed no difference in their needs or their reactions to the identical care provided. All three eat, (with the exception of the occasional fast by the pyro's as indicated) and reproduce with equal vigor.

Would a corn snake make a better choice for the OP? Perhaps, but he was looking for options and opinions and in my opinion a variable kingsnake is a perfectly acceptable option. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.