Sea Otters: yet another slap in the face!

[adamanteus]

Now, now Stefan... as you know, if there are exceptions, there is no rule!

[drache]

I only personally know one other Finn, and I'd say he doesn't debate - he barely talks, but when he does it's usually in a lecture format
not that I think this anecdotal experience of one Finn in the US would yield adequate info about a more stereotypical depiction of the "average" Finn

[Stefan-A]

Now, now Stefan... as you know, if there are exceptions, there is no rule!

If there's no rule, there can be no exception, but if there's an exception, there's no rule.

[drache]

and if there's no exception, the rule stands

[Stefan-A]

and if there's no exception, the rule stands

Well, it could also be a coincidence that there are no exceptions.

[adamanteus]

I think it's pretty much the rule that there are exceptions.

[Hornets23]

Except for the exception of the rule that has no exceptions.....

[Stefan-A]

I think it's pretty much the rule that there are exceptions.

That's a different rule.

[Steven@HumboldtHerps]

Gee! What can of worms did I open up? I go to sleep, wake up, and there are 4 pages of posts! Yee haa! I completely forgot to mention the whole point of the link I initially posted: Don't flush your kitty spoils down the toilet! Bacteria in cat feces are killing sea otters!

But now that the worms are loose, I might insert a few points from my very own distraught brain.

First, I agree that "Mother Nature" (whatever universally driven force you want to call it) couldn't care less. Our existence is a novelty in the bigger picture of the All That Is. Sure, balance is found throughout the planet (specially evolved eco-systems that have been "balanced" for years on end), but nature abhors a vacuum, and without an upset in the balance, evolution would never happen - Something is always eating something else, and if you don't become food, you could succumb from the weather or some other changing factor. The fact that we still have redwood trees and turtles (to name a very scant few of those species derived and relatively unchanged in design since before the dinosaurs) speaks to us that certain environmental conditions that favor such ancient lineages just haven't changed enough yet. Everything is destined to "go" at some point.

Regarding humanity's role in the "balance", yes, Europeans had a head start in technology, which enabled them to conquer new lands. Fundamental mindsets placed human existence above all else: dominion over all things on earth (Oh, how I loathe the self-righteousness of organized religions!). I don't believe technology is bad; I only question the intent of how it's used.

As for Native Americans, I have to be a bit rash. I recently took Native American History, and I found my teacher (an Ojibwe) to be extremely naive. She professed that which I have seen posted here: that, through lack of understanding and respect, the new Americans upset the balance.
Her idealistic oratory on how peaceful America's indigenous people were brought bile to my throat on several occasions. She completely dismissed human nature. Overall, I have to concur that most Native Americans did indeed live a lifestyle that was more harmonious with the environment, as do many of the world's indigenous people, however... people are people, and in the long run, history has proven that all cultures are succeptable to causing waste and ruin. There was, I believe a request for an example...?

MAYA! Long before the white man arrived, environmental affairs were already way out of sync in the Americas. I guess it happens when any society gets too big for its britches. The Maya civilization (esp. the later chapter) was jamm-packed with too many people, and it changed the landscape of So. Mexico and Central America completely with deforestation and rampant sacrifice (used to appease the blood-lusted superstitious and brainwashed starving masses). Yes, there were (possibly natural) droughts, but human nature is human nature.

My teacher was also shocked to learn that Pacific Northwestern tribes also engaged in slavery. Hmmmm! Sounds eerily familiar! So, while I may generally agree that indigenous cultures are indeed more finely tuned to their environment than a larger society, I don't buy the "we Native folk have always led a harmonious life" B.S.! By the way, I got an "A" in that class.

Steve

[infernalis]

See smart people really do live in.......