Anyone ever cross tetrataenia with blotched ssp. (infernalis, concinnus, parietalis)

[adamanteus]

$20,000 isn't the price of the snake...it's the cost of the fine if you are caught interferring with them!

[Bay_area]

$20,000 isn't the price of the snake...it's the cost of the fine if you are caught interferring with them!

And they do not even let you keep the snake after you pay the fine...LOL!

[zooplan]

You should not keep it, ship it to me

Serious again:
If habitat decreasing is going on, the natural populations will be died out soon.
Only very few specimens would expand the European geenpool enormously.

[Thamnophis]

You can also say that when the habitats for tetrataenia are (almost) gone and there is no chance to restore them, why should you protect them in the wild.
I am not saying that is MY opinion, but it is something to discuss.

[zooplan]

If you can get a goal in two ways, both should be tried.
In conservation you can get best effects if habitat protection and a vital captive population could be relized.
One ore even a small group of specimens won´t hurt a vital population but can raise a new one.
The first ´tetrataenias have settled back to San Francisco from Europe yet.

[drache]

You can also say that when the habitats for tetrataenia are (almost) gone and there is no chance to restore them, why should you protect them in the wild.
I am not saying that is MY opinion, but it is something to discuss.

I know the area where they occur and I wouldn't say that their habitat is almost gone
I believe that protecting them in "the wild" has actually worked in that their numbers seem to be bouncing back (read something about that - not sure where)
as long as they're not being out-right persecuted, most snakes can do pretty well in relative proximity to human habitation, unless their dietary preference consists of something more delicate

[Bay_area]

It is really strange with Fish & Wildlife or Fish & Game Departments on their view when it comes to reptiles, expecially snakes. They really have to be "pushed" when it comes to any type of protection for them or their habitat. It isn't until private organizations or the State University Biologist step in & make them do something. To be honest with you, one of the populations of SF Garters that my friends & I know about, F&G had no idea that they were @ this location til were told by one us.
Snakes do not get the same out cry from the public when they are harmed like other animals. If an otter, snowy plover, condor, etc was in the area, the whole area would be roped off & patrolled 24/7 by Rangers. I really do not blame the F&G officers, they are just to enforce the laws. F&G is underfunded & it is the ones in charge that set the budget. In Northern California F&G spends most of their time chasing poachers of abalone, deer, sturgen, whatever is big $$$(money) on the illegal market at the time.

[Thamnophis]

I thought that the diminishing of T. s. tetrataenia is not caused by the disappearing of the habitats (a Gartersnake is an opportunistic animal that easily adapts to its surroundings), but has more to do with the dissapearing of its main food source, the California red-legged frog (Rana aurora draytonii).

[drache]

yes, I had heard that as well
but apparently they are adapting to other food sources
you guys in Europe would know more about what that snake will eat
are you all breeding Cal red-legged frogs over there?

[Thamnophis]

@ Bay area ... I agree with what you wrote above. Reptiels are often not seen as real animals

@ Drache ... no we are not breeding red leggs overhere.
But a snakesubspecies like tetrataenia has evolved together with those frogs. When the frogs dissapear the snakes are not immediately abled to change their feeding habits. Some of the might work this out and they are the beginning of a new population. But a lot of snakes will die. Think of the juvenile snakes that are born and instinctly go hunting for tadpoles of the redleggs. And there are no (or not enough) tadpoles. Than there is a problem!
In captivity it is a lot easier because we trick them in eating all kinds of other stuff.