Garter Diet Question

[DrKate]

If you have references to those studies, I am interested (particularly as it relates to the mechanism of the deficiency).

If you've got access to Aquatic Sciences & Fisheries Abstracts through your university library, use "thiaminase" and "alewife" as search terms and set the fields to "Anywhere." There are loads of studies, I only read enough of them to convince myself the salmon had thiamine deficiency and were eating the alewives live. If you don't have access to ASFA, PM me and I'll send you a list of the search results. Since the OP asked a very practical question, I don't want to further clog the thread with academic nonsense.

[adamanteus]

I don't want to further clog the thread with academic nonsense.

I'm sure the original poster will appreciate that, Kate.
That said, the discussion between yourself and Benjamin on the question of thiaminase is fascinating and relevent, and obviously you have both researched the subject. Perhaps one of you might consider starting a thread devoted to this topic?

[adamanteus]

Valid points. But in 'the real world' how many of us can set fish traps or start a frog breeding project? It's unrealistic. We are a group of hobbyists looking for the best way to care for our charges. I think what Ashley is asking for here is good advice on a readily available source of healthy food for her pet Garter Snake.

[GradStudentLeper]

Valid points. But in 'the real world' how many of us can set fish traps or start a frog breeding project? It's unrealistic. We are a group of hobbyists looking for the best way to care for our charges. I think what Ashley is asking for here is good advice on a readily available source of healthy food for her pet Garter Snake.

Breeding guppies in huge numbers is easy, you need a starting colony of Live Bearers that you can get in any mid-range fish store, and an aquarium with a decent filtration system, oh and you need brine shrimp, also obtainable from any mid range aquatics store.

You can also get massive numbers of tadpoles and other feeder organisms in bulk from biological supply companies. I dont know how easy that is in the UK, but there are dozens of Bio Supply companies in the US that ship.

mmm tadpoles

They are even cheaper than pinkies (particularly the xenopus)

As a matter of fact, biological supply companies can make it easier to add certain species to your personal reptile or amphibian collections. Some species because they are not popular on the pet trade cannot easily be found at expos or shops, but they are LOVED in classroom or research settings... But I digress.

Point being, the organisms I suggest as feeders are readily available, one just needs to be willing to take an extra step and know where to look, which in my estimation is no worse than scenting or otherwise trying to trick your snake into eating something it would not otherwise consume.

[jitami]

Breeding guppies in huge numbers is easy...

While it's not difficult per se, it it is a royal pain in the arse! I longed for guppies... I looked everywhere for guppies... I found guppies and started a tank... I would never do it again.... so time consuming for what little you get out of them. Anyone want a tank full? Kidding, but I've thought of freezing the whole lot and being done with them many many many times!

[adamanteus]

I thought Xenopus were toxic to snakes, causing oral dyskenesia? You mention in a previous post that most Garters wouldn't encounter trout or salmon in nature.... but Xenopus?

[GradStudentLeper]

I thought Xenopus were toxic to snakes, causing oral dyskenesia? You mention in a previous post that most Garters wouldn't encounter trout or salmon in nature.... but Xenopus?

*looks up literature..* Why yes. Yes they do. Amend. Do NOT feed Xenopus to snakes. Granted until I saw how dirt cheap lab raised Xenopus were, it never occured to me to even think of using them for the very reason that the snakes might not even recognize them as food. So, I stand corrected there. The rest of the point stands however. Even the bullfrog tadpoles that you can get in bulk are cheaper than mice, and more palatable to just about any natricine (some fish specialist nerodia need not apply)

[adamanteus]

I think the consensus is that a varied diet is the key...... Garters are after all opportunist feeders (there are numerous pics/videos on here of Garters eating all manner of road-kill!) What we need to bear in mind is what is actually readily available to the average keeper.

[Zephyr]

If it's an eastern garter snake, it may be adapted to eating worms, fish, or frogs.
What species do you have?

[Stefan-A]

I agree, but don't stop with the academic nonsense.