Major bummer

[BUSHSNAKE]

A red snow...cool, 1 out of 32 would be your chances of getting a triple morph,i dont think it matters if theyre all recessive traits or a combination of recessive and co dom traits(like the moonglow boa) this is a morph ive had in mind for a couple of years now, looks like your gonna beat me to it...darn it!

[Jeff B]

A red snow...cool, 1 out of 32 would be your chances of getting a triple morph,i dont think it matters if theyre all recessive traits or a combination of recessive and co dom traits(like the moonglow boa) this is a morph ive had in mind for a couple of years now, looks like your gonna beat me to it...darn it!

Even if you call the erythristic a co-dom gene, the calculation is actually 3 in 64 to produce a erythristic snow from this pairing, which would be 2 homogygous recessives (albino and melanistic) plus a co-dom gene (erythristic).
But re-read my post Joe, I don't think it is that simple, because I am not convinced that the erythristic is a single point co-dominant trait, the evidence points more to polygenic inheritance.

[ConcinusMan]

Even if you call the erythristic a co-dom gene, the calculation is actually 3 in 64 to produce a erythristic snow from this pairing, which would be 2 homogygous recessives (albino and melanistic) plus a co-dom gene (erythristic).
But re-read my post Joe, I don't think it is that simple, because I am not convinced that the erythristic is a single point co-dominant trait, the evidence points more to polygenic inheritance.

For some dang reason, after playing around with the advanced genetics wizard, I now understand what he's saying. Depending on the number of genes involved in making orange on concinnus,(could be a yellow gene and a red gene) red on any other snake, and whether or not the genes are dominant or co-dominant, the chances of introducing red and producing a red snow are...

Well, I'm let's just say I'm not placing any bets in favor of that happening. I've also had doubts that this "christmas" iowa albino is something that you can breed to another iowa to produce hets for that "christmas" trait especially if the orange coloring is the result of polygenic inheritance but scott would have to set me straight on that. He has the proven breeding and yet was still surprised by that morph.

[jitami]

Sorry, Jeff, that is a bummer... can't wait to watch your melanistic baby grow, though!

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Omg Joe, that's right! I remember talking about that on the phone how you wanted to try and breed that and see what would happen. I hope my pair also turns out het melanistic!!!

[ConcinusMan]

Dang, I can't even wrap my mind around what he just said! ^^^

[aSnakeLovinBabe]

Dang, I can't even wrap my mind around what he just said! ^^^

I can! and I agree, erythristic is waaay too unpredictable to be a single point gene.

[Jeff B]

Shannon,
please call me sometime soon when you get a chance, I would like to discuss some things with you and we have played to much phone tag and I would really like to discuss the chicago projects with you among other things, which is why I was trying to get ahold of you in the first place. I have to go into work for a couple hours in the morning (Sat.) and will be at my parents for easter in the afternoon but other than that.
Jeff

[ConcinusMan]

I can! and I agree, erythristic is waaay too unpredictable to be a single point gene.

Not to go off topic or hijack but I would be interested in hearing your theories and speculation on how the heck that population of concinnus limited to a very tiny geographic area, all ended up being hypoanerythristic. I didn't see a single normal snake among them. Doesn't sound recessive, so why such a limited area I wonder? I mean, you cannot deny something interesting is going on when all the snakes in that very limited area look like this, some even more faded and yet, normal snakes dominate the entire region and aren't far away from this population:

Since we already had a thread going Maybe we can continue that conversation in our other thread:

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6665

[Jeff B]

This is likely an example of isolated or "pocket" population genetics. The genes (rather than a single gene mutation) for less color have been selected or have dominated that population for what ever reason, could be the brighter colored ones were more easily seen and preyed upon, or could just be that a few mutations for less color that are dominant or co-dominant to the brighter reds occured over time and accumulated and became the overwhelming prevelant phenotype in the population in that area due to a lack of outside population genes in that particular area.
However its certainly possible that it is a single point mutation, likely co-dom or dom that has spread, accumulated, and become the most prevelant phenotype in that isolated population to the point that it is essentially the "wild type". There is only one way to find out, breeding trials outcrossing to other snakes with the more normal red from some other location, at least 2 or 3 generations would be required likely to prove or disprove that it is a single heritable gene and what type of inhertance pattern it exhibits.