any accidental wild Tham population in Europe

[guidofatherof5]

I believe there is talk about some wild Thamnophis being found in Europe. Can't remember who I was talking to when that came up. I don't think anything has been comfirmed but then again I may be wrong.

[Stefan-A]

I believe there is talk about some wild Thamnophis being found in Europe. Can't remember who I was talking to when that came up. I don't think anything has been comfirmed but then again I may be wrong.

Have heard about it, including a supposedly established population in southern Sweden, but it appears that it's a myth based on one or possibly two specimens found in the last 20-30 years.

[hjelte]

Yup, in what you in english would call a province, in "Halland", about 1 1/2 hours south of Gothenburg, there supposedly is a population of T.S Parietalis. As Stefan says though, is seems to be more of a myth upon further investigation online. I live fairly close, and had I believed there was any substance to this rumour, I would be out herping right now

[chris-uk]

What would be the minimum number to form a sustainable population? What sort of range do individual garters cover within a breeding population?
I suspect that the number required within a relatively small area would be quite high.

I expect there are odd escapees that survive for years in the wild, but not a population. Anyone deliberately releasing enough garters to form a wild population would be both seriously irresponsible and also breaking some law or another (not sure what law it would be in the UK).

[Stefan-A]

What would be the minimum number to form a sustainable population?

One gravid female with a bit of luck.

What sort of range do individual garters cover within a breeding population?

Typically, they move a few hundred meters to a few kilometers during a season.

I suspect that the number required within a relatively small area would be quite high.

The density would matter, yes. No idea how many per hectare would be sufficient.

I expect there are odd escapees that survive for years in the wild, but not a population.

I'd have to agree. It also takes more than survival to actually establish a population and climate is the best predictor.

[Thamnophis]

I only "know" the Swedish population, but have never seen prove of any kind.
But I am convinced that when a number of specimen of one of the northern Thamnophis species escaped in parts of the Netherlands, they would have a chance to be succesfull.

[chris-uk]

There we go, in the UK:

Section 14(1) of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 makes it an offence for any person to release or allow to escape into the wild any animal which is of a kind which is not ordinarily resident in and is not a regular visitor to Great Britain in a wild state.

So in principle you could be prosecuted if your snakes escape by accident because you hadn't taken the measures necessary to prevent them from escaping. I'm not sure how heavily the law is enforced, one snake you'd probably get away with, but freeing 20 babies may be pushing your luck.

[hjelte]

Do you need a special permit for "1.0.0 - Homo sapiens called Chris" ?

[chris-uk]

Do you need a special permit for "1.0.0 - Homo sapiens called Chris" ?

She needed a marriage license for that one.

[PINJOHN]

There we go, in the UK:

Section 14(1) of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 makes it an offence for any person to release or allow to escape into the wild any animal which is of a kind which is not ordinarily resident in and is not a regular visitor to Great Britain in a wild state.

So in principle you could be prosecuted if your snakes escape by accident because you hadn't taken the measures necessary to prevent them from escaping. I'm not sure how heavily the law is enforced, one snake you'd probably get away with, but freeing 20 babies may be pushing your luck.

Hey Chris now you have got me paranoid about my admission in the Warren Buffett thread