PUGET Update (Vet Visit & more ;))

[mikm]

BIG_GIRL ^^^



GIRL_#2 ^^^



MALE ^^^

[Cazador]

I've questioned whether we're dealing with hybrids as well. I don't know enough about taxonomy to really say one way or the other, though. Apparently, T.s. pickeringii can be blue, red, melanistic, brownish, greenish, and probably even more colors. One of these days, I'll pull the dead ones out of the freezer and count their teeth. Rossman et al. has a very good key that uses the number of teeth as a definitive characteristic, but it also seems like a pain in the rear.

[GarterGuy]

From pics that I've seen, T.ordinoides seems to be an extremely variable species as well, not only in colour, but also general body shapes and such too.

[Cazador]

Marian,
Congrats on the weight gain! That's a great sign, and since they haven't been brumated recently, I think it's very revealing about the effect the parasites were having. Really fantastic news!!! Also, if you look closely, each snake has its vertebral scale completely colored, and about 1/2 of each paravertebral scale is colored. They all seem to have small eyes (characteristic of T. ordinoides), and the internasal scales on the male seem to be longer than the prefrontals (behind the internasals; characteristic of T. ordinoides). However, the male also seems to have the most pointed head (characteristic of T. sirtalis pickeringii). The head shape of the girls seems to be much less triangular (like T. ordinoides). As you'll see in the file I'll send you, T. ordinoides have 16-20 maxillary teeth, and T.s. pickeringii have 20-26. I have some dead ones in the freezer that I can examine. I think the dorsal scale counts of 17 were VERY revealing, though.

All,
I've pretty much plagiarized the distinguishing characteristics, life history, ecology, etc. for T. sirtalis and T. ordinoides from two snake ID books (Rossman et al.'s 1991 The Garter Snakes and Western Reptiles and Amphibians 3rd Ed. by Robert C. Stebbins) and will send the files to Mikm, Kitkat, GarterGuy, GarterKing, and anyone else that requests a copy (via PM). Since plagiarism is frowned upon, I don't want to post the file onto our care sheets, but I'd be happy to provide individual copies to anyone who asks.
Rick

P.S. The head shots are very useful, and if you posted a good side view around midbody from slightly above the snake (~35 degree angle), we could probably help with your scale counts, too. A nice side view from slightly below the head will reveal the number of upper and lower labials. These nice, clear pictures are very helpful.

[Stefan-A]

Great pictures! I can see why you are concerned about people stealing them.

[Cazador]

Hey Brian,

Thanks for the words of wisdom. I can apply (and have applied) the characteristics to some of the pictures on this thread, but I'd really appreciate your assessment, as well.

Rick

[drache]

I was wondering . .
Aren't there laws around the treatment of animals here and perhaps a government agency to report people to?
This Bob guy should get something a bit more than ta civilized slap he can just shrug of.
In my opinion, even a hefty fine is too kind for that guy - he should be locked up along with the sex offenders.

[mikm]

hello Brian !!! So nice to hear from you. Not sure why I did not think to ask you directly about the Blues as you are the "west" guy Yes, all of my Red Spots are doing very well thanks for asking. The male I got from you was the first garter I have owned that ate pink parts right from the start, no scenting required He displays a nice, bright, pure orange color with his head coloring up nicely as well.

much thanks for your input on this Brian ... Enjoy your day !!!
marian

[ssssnakeluvr]

here's another coolpic of a nice looking northwestern......

[mikm]

hey Don ... wow, is that guy yours ??? in any event, thanks for sharing !!

marian