Clawed frog= clawed treat?

[guidofatherof5]

True but.....
http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gene...frog-legs.html

[aquamentus_11]

yeah....not ok

[ConcinusMan]

So, amphibians are usually a no-no

Freezing them at very low temperatures (below 15 F) for a couple of weeks kills most common parasites. It's not the amphibians that's the problem, it's the parasites they carry. However, it's best to avoid amphibians that are known to be toxic such as newts. While some populations of wild garters are immune to the poison, others are not.

That's too bad. I really enjoy trying to mimic their natural state (as much as a glass enclosure allows...) and would like to feed her an amphibian once in awhile. I won't do endemic toads or frogs because they're some of my favorite animals and for the parasite problem. I have never been a fan of clawed frogs though, and I had hoped that they were usually CB and safe to eat. I hear frog legs from a grocery store work well. True?

Frozen thawed frog legs meant for human consumption are OK for captive garters IMO but there's no compelling reason to use them. Your snakes can be very healthy and happy eating just rodents, or rodents and fish fillet / whole silversides. While most people think that mimicing their natural environment and feeding them their natural wild food makes sense, you have to remember that captivity is not the wild. You have to do things a bit differently in captivity to keep them healthy. A parasite infection in captivity can quickly get out of hand and kill your snake while in the wild, it only serves to ensure that only the strongest snakes survive to breed and even those that do manage to breed don't live to be a ripe old age. You have to consider that the wild lifespan is much less than their potential longitivity. As much as 85 percent of snakes in the wild don't live long enough to breed. 85 percent loss would be unacceptable in captivity.

Life is hard for them out there. Losses are staggering, (they make up for it by having large numbers of offspring, most of which are doomed to die young) so I ask, why would you want to mimic that?

[EasternGirl]

I agree which is why I tend to keep my snakes a bit warmer than they would be in the wild...not too warm, but while some people argue that they do not need heat...and no offense is meant to anyone here...I tend to disagree. I understand that they can survive pretty harsh temperatures in the wild...but if I am taking care of a garter, I am trying to give it a better quality of life than it would have in the wild...therefore I am going to try to give it optimal temps, not temps in which it can survive. Just my opinion.

[ConcinusMan]

OK. My point is, that goes for diet, enclosure environment, etc. too. I mean, sure, you can find wild snakes in bacteria infested mud, water, etc. and those snakes are surely carrying parasites but we don't want that for our captives. Not if you want them to be healthy and live long. It irritates me that people try to create a dirty muddy wetland in their tank and feed them parasite infested food just because that's what they have in the wild.

Trust me, just stay away from live fish, amphibians, etc. and feed them rodents, night crawlers, frozen thawed fish and they'll do just fine. They don't need live fish or amphibians. They only eat that in the wild because that is what is available.

Think about it. If I was an alien and came down to catch a human living in abject poverty that is drinking contaminated water and eating only rice, is that what I should give them in captivity?... well, you get the point I hope.

[aquamentus_11]

Think about it. If I was an alien and came down to catch a human living in abject poverty that is drinking contaminated water and eating only rice, is that what I should give them in captivity?... well, you get the point I hope.

That depends; are you a flight of the navigator alien or more of a battlefield earth alien?

I agree though; I only wanted to try the frog thing as a special treat. I can't find silversides anywhere, btw. I'd rather not have to use calcium on filets. It's not a big deal, but she's fussy enough as it is.

[EasternGirl]

Remind me...are you feeding worms and pinkies as well as fish?

[aquamentus_11]

yes, but she's only eaten worms so far. she has tried with the other stuff so we'll work on it.

[EasternGirl]

She'll get there...it just takes a little time .

[ConcinusMan]

Well, I do occasionally, although rarely, feed small WC bullfrogs to my snakes. However, I freeze them at around 0 degrees F for a month or two. That should kill most common parasites they might be carrying. If you choose to use frogs as an occasional treat, the freezing at very low temperatures gives an added bit of safety against the most common parasites.

As far as fillet goes, Tilapia actually has a signficant amount of calcium. Not as much as whole fish, but tilapia fillet has more calcium than many other fish.