My new garter(s)

[Stefan-A]

Yeah, I'm starting to lean a bit towards concinnus.

[ConcinusMan]

It's easier to tell when you've seen many fitchi and many of the laterally striped concinnus' in person. Going out herping, I would never mistake one for the other, because their ranges do not overlap. Still, you could place both in a container and I would be able to sort out which is which. There's subtle, yet obvious differences when compared side by side.

[ConcinusMan]

WA fitchi, which is found in Eastern WA and the east end of Columbia river gorge, is well outside of concinnus' range. It has redder reds, and yellower yellows, than concinnus, if that makes sense. That's why I'm not so sure about the smaller snake. The color seems more fitchi to me.

[mikem]

Thank you for the very informative reply, ConcinnusMan! Is there any specific angle of photo that i can take to help you better ID the little male?

[ConcinusMan]

Take photos at various angles. Whatever shows the color and pattern best. Take the photos in bright natural daylight, no flash.

[mikem]

absolutely! the weather here at the moment is wet and rainy. it may be tomorrow afternoon or even thursday as it's calling for more clouds and rain tomorrow if you wouldn't mind peeping back in over the next couple of days, i will definitely get those pics for ya. Thanks again!

[mikem]

alright, first sunny day this week. hope these pics are adequate. my cell phone is the only camera i have right now.

[mikem]

and the rest. let me know if these photos are good enough. i can try some more if needed. thanks for looking!

[BUSHSNAKE]

Thank you for the very informative reply, ConcinnusMan! Is there any specific angle of photo that i can take to help you better ID the little male?

in this picture i say concinnus

[ConcinusMan]

I don't think this latest one pictured is a concinnus. It looks like a WA or OR state T.s. fitchi to me. I suspected that first because of the color. Now looking at the light colored underside and well defined edge of the lateral stripe where it meets the black, I'm having doubts about both of them. I'm pretty darn sure the male is a fitchi, and the female could be one too.

The light undersides for one, isn't typical of a laterally striped concinnus. Neither is the well defined upper edge of the lateral stripe. Those are fitchi traits.

Let me show you another fitchi from Oregon:



And another:



See what I mean? Look at the sides and the color. Now look at another laterally striped concinnus from Clatsop county Oregon:


See the differences? Normally, range would tell you if it's a concinnus or a fitchi but since we don't know where they were found, those differences I just illustrated are how you tell the two apart (fitchi vs. concinnus). It's pretty common for people who don't know about the range of concinnus, to go find a fitchi in Oregon, and assume because it's from Oregon, and has red spots, it must be an oregon red spotted. Well, concinnus doesn't occur in the same areas as fitchi. Generally concinnus is confined to the Willamette Valley and SW WA. Fitchi is found in the rest of Oregon and eastern WA where concinnus does not occur.

Like I said, looking at the laterals and underside, I'm thinking they are both Valley garters. Laterally striped concinnus' do not have light undersides, (with the exception of the throat area) and the lateral stripes are usually a different color. Sort of bluish, and the edge isn't well defined.

With all that said, I think that Stefan was right all along. Those are fitchi laterals on both snakes. Unfortunately, I would say that there are also many fitchi/concinnus mixed breeds out there being sold as concinnus. I've seen plenty of "concinnus" for sale that sure do look like concinnus' but they aren't like any pure concinnus you can find in the wild.