Thamnophis + Natrix = OK?

[ConcinusMan]

I'm starting to look beyond stupid... >_<

Shame on you. I never do that.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I thought European grass snakes eat other snakes. No?

[PINJOHN]

forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I thought European grass snakes eat other snakes. No?

I have never heard that one before Richard or seen any literal reference to it happening .....but snakes being snakes i would hesitate to put absolutes in any statement about them, so the strongest i will go is highly unlikely.

[RedSidedSPR]

Shame on you. I never do that.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I thought European grass snakes eat other snakes. No?

I do it all the time. -__-

And yes. Yes they do. But I don't think that's a concern anymore then housing garters together.

[Sergey]

Grass snakes do not eat other snakes, but it can occasionally happen if they take otnovremenno a food item.

[RedSidedSPR]

Same as garters. I don't think they eat them, but they CAN eat them. Unlike garters, they can digest other snakes I believe, without dying themselves

[RedSidedSPR]

Those things are badass.

Not.

I use my iPod touch always. Cuz I can't freaking get on the computer hardly ever and don't have my own. *cries and sobs and wails and all that good stuff*

[chris-uk]

I think the environmental conditions aspect is a consideration when housing any snakes together. That many garter species have such a large range makes it easy to put different species together, but I'd still shy away from putting garters together where their natural envionmental conditions varied greatly. What is significant is that the Canadian garters still operate in similar temps to Mexican garters, the difference being the months that they are active. That garters tend to be very adaptable helps keep them together. Similar story with natrix, for example I've read about a population of natrix tessalata living in Poland, when they are normally found further south so there's a adaptability in natrix as well. Whether all species of natrix and thamnophis could be safely kept together... I don't know, we'd have to consider each combination and decide.

Pathogen crossover between thamnophis and natrix is an unknown until someone produces the research that says that a virus/bacteria/other pathogen commonly and harmlessly carried in one genera has ill effects on the other. There's two ways to approach an unknown risk, either assume it is a high risk until proven safe, or assume it is not a risk until it proves otherwise. As with many things we make a risk assessment and decide how to react based on our perception of the risk.

[PINJOHN]

I think the environmental conditions aspect is a consideration when housing any snakes together. That many garter species have such a large range makes it easy to put different species together, but I'd still shy away from putting garters together where their natural envionmental conditions varied greatly. What is significant is that the Canadian garters still operate in similar temps to Mexican garters, the difference being the months that they are active. That garters tend to be very adaptable helps keep them together. Similar story with natrix, for example I've read about a population of natrix tessalata living in Poland, when they are normally found further south so there's a adaptability in natrix as well. Whether all species of natrix and thamnophis could be safely kept together... I don't know, we'd have to consider each combination and decide.

Pathogen crossover between thamnophis and natrix is an unknown until someone produces the research that says that a virus/bacteria/other pathogen commonly and harmlessly carried in one genera has ill effects on the other. There's two ways to approach an unknown risk, either assume it is a high risk until proven safe, or assume it is not a risk until it proves otherwise. As with many things we make a risk assessment and decide how to react based on our perception of the risk.

OK then Chris based on my personal experience of keeping these snakes together, i deem it to be risk free there you go i have said it and it is of course just my opinion ....and i don't seem to have aquatically explained that when mixing the two then i am referring to snakes of comparable latitudes not to one from each extreme, i honestly thought that was a given but people keep coming back to the extreme position.

[aquamentus_11]

i like it. i personally think that housing them together sounds fine; i have a T.s.parietalis and it doesn't get much more northern than that. i would go as far as to say that housing different genders of the two snakes would also be fine. they can't mate, they're from different genera. i could see a male putting the moves on the female, but nothing would come of it. the possible downsides would be the male not eating (they sound like they tend not to once they're in the mood), frustration and a need for sex counseling. if they don't eat each other, don't mate with each other, eat the same things and like the same environment it actually sounds like a non-breeder's dream. pathogens are another possibility. go cb.

that being said, i personally would not house two different genders together just because of the way females can put a male off feeding.

[guidofatherof5]

"An once of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
Just seems the place for that quote.

I think being over cautious in many respects is a good thing.
My quarantine procedure might be looked at that way but it doesn't hurt to be over cautious considering the possible consequences of not being.
Just my opinion.