first shed...

[nessy]

Cazador: you're right about the parasites, i caught and kept a few, they all developed white lumps and died.

i'm feeding mine on smelt at the moment, but on the link it's reported on both lists, only difference is one's from "pond" and the other "freshwater"... but ponds are freshwater aren't they? i've also fed her strips of black tilapia.

Snaky:

So it's not a problem to give them fish that contains thiaminase if you supplement it with vitamine B1, which I get for free (powder form) at the local pharmacy.

hi, i'm assuming the pharmacy B1 suppliment is for people, are they okay to use with snakes? because over here human vitamin powder would be a lot cheaper than "specialist" snake suppliments...

[abcat1993]

only difference is one's from "pond" and the other "freshwater"... but ponds are freshwater aren't they? i've also fed her strips of black tilapia.

I would assume so, at least in America they are. Maybe it means brackish.

[CrazyHedgehog]

Hey Nessie,
also from UK, and yes things like rosy's are about £2 each,
Mice pinkies are about 55p from pet shops or about 20p online... so you Americans can imagine how expensive it is to feed our snakes...

I buy mice and pinkies in bulk online from icemice...(pinkies down to 19p) and have a draw in the freezer just for frozen mice!!
and feed both mice and chopped up trout.

Trout has NO thiamanese apparently, I buy it from Asda, chop into bite size bits and feed with mice, sometimes alternately, sometimes mixed..

All my snakes eat both.

I have not used a suppliment ever (well since the 80's when I was feeding on whitebait) But all snakes lively and healthy..

Oh and I give them the odd garden worm (what the americans on here call night crawlers, threw me at first, I thought it was some foriegn insect that they ate!) just make sure its the common garden thing and not the redder ones that you find under sacks or in composts as they are toxic to your snakes..

[abcat1993]

Hey Nessie,
also from UK, and yes things like rosy's are about £2 each,
Mice pinkies are about 55p from pet shops or about 20p online

Lucky, here they're about 4 dollars in pet stores (4USD = ~3.07 EUR)

Oh and I give them the odd garden worm (what the americans on here call night crawlers, threw me at first, I thought it was some foriegn insect that they ate!) just make sure its the common garden thing and not the redder ones that you find under sacks or in composts as they are toxic to your snakes..

And, (I don't know if they have these there) but watch out for red worms, they are found commonly in some people's gardens and are toxic to garters.
OH, wait, this is my third time editing this, I didn't read the rest of your post.

[CrazyHedgehog]

Lucky, here they're about 4 dollars in pet stores (4USD = ~3.07 EUR)

LOL
what the rosy's?

$4= £2
we pay the same then!
I have seen pinkies in America sold online for about 10 cents each!!! so frozen are cheaper over there!(if your paying more try searching the internet!!)

[abcat1993]

OK, wait, I really don't know what I'm talking about. I meant mice, but I did a bag with three mice in it, not one, and I did the wrong thing (insert banana here)

[Cazador]

Hi Hans,
It looks like they tested two different genera (plural for genus) of smelt. The first one (Osmerus mordax) came from the Great Lakes in the U.S., but it didn't say where the second one (Hypomesus olidus) originated. They were both from freshwater sources, though. Maybe an internet search on their scientific names would help you recognize which (if any) you're feeding.

I don't know if the fact that reptiles are designed to conserve liquid and don't urinate as often as mammals would have any bearing on vitamin B1's passage rate, and hence it's toxicity.

[Snaky]

hi, i'm assuming the pharmacy B1 suppliment is for people, are they okay to use with snakes? because over here human vitamin powder would be a lot cheaper than "specialist" snake suppliments...

It's not vitamine B1 that you buy as tablets, added with some other things. It's really vitamine B1 powder pure, pharmacies use it sometimes to add in mixtures they make themselves on a prescription from the doctor.

I also use a vitamin powder for reptiles once in a while to add as supplement, because there's a lot more other vitamines/calcium/... in there. They can benefit from it if you add it once in a while, I think.

I don't know if the fact that reptiles are designed to conserve liquid and don't urinate as often as mammals would have any bearing on vitamin B1's passage rate, and hence it's toxicity.

Do you have any studies on that, I'd be interested in reading on the toxicity level with snakes of to much B1? I would still think that it's hard to reach toxic levels with vitamin B1, but if it's proven otherwise I'm interested of course.

But for those that worry about it, heating the fish to 80°C for some minutes (never done it myself, so don't know how many) does the trick of killing thiaminase. Still the fish don't contain B1, so I would still add a little supplement.

[Stefan-A]

I was *this* close to quoting him and inserting it. Had it all ready and just waiting for me to press the button, but I managed to stop myself.

[Cazador]

I think from this point on, we can just mention the banana and have an even more dramatic effect than actually seeing it .