Shipping discussions

[twgrosmick]

I ship three small deli cups in a 7x7x7 w/ 3/4 inch insulation... You have to change your packing up when a heat back is involved, but for the majority of the year you can really ship most of the stuff in very small boxes.

[EasternGirl]

Okay...once again, scrolling through a lot of arguing to get here. And, it does kind of seem like Richard and twogromsmick...or whatever the name is, are arguing with everyone now just for the sake of arguing. I was incorrect in saying that SYR marks the boxes "live reptile"...it just says perishable on the box. I wasn't saying that I don't trust their specific heat packs so much as I was saying that I worry about using a heat pack at all. With all of the insulation and the fact that the snakes will be on a plane and a truck most of the time...I don't want them to overheat. So my question is...should I use the heat pack if I am going to ship now? And do you guys suggest I use the snake bags or the large deli cup? The snakes are yearlings...2 of them. Should I use packing peanuts to prevent jossling? And should I poke holes through the box and styrofoam like the SYR directions say, or not? I'm hearing different answers to these questions and I need to make a decision....thanks!

[twgrosmick]

arguing with everyone now just for the sake of arguing.

If you really read through you would see that the only argument on my end was with Richard because what he was doing isn't allowed. It has now been confirmed by a reptile shipping company so really there isn't a discussion. If it weren't for this thread you would obviously have no idea how to ship your reptile this time of year. If you don't like it that is fine but don't complain about people arguing and then go on to ask for our help. I have presented what has worked extremely well for me, Richard has his own methods (disregarding the USPS) which I am sure would work well, and there are plenty of videos from reptile shipping companies explaining how to do it. Really you are the one that needs to make the decision. Personally, and not bashing Richard here, I would go with what SYR has to say seeing as it is their job.... just my thoughts...

[Robyn@TRR]

Okay...once again, scrolling through a lot of arguing to get here. And, it does kind of seem like Richard and twogromsmick...or whatever the name is, are arguing with everyone now just for the sake of arguing. I was incorrect in saying that SYR marks the boxes "live reptile"...it just says perishable on the box. I wasn't saying that I don't trust their specific heat packs so much as I was saying that I worry about using a heat pack at all. With all of the insulation and the fact that the snakes will be on a plane and a truck most of the time...I don't want them to overheat. So my question is...should I use the heat pack if I am going to ship now? And do you guys suggest I use the snake bags or the large deli cup? The snakes are yearlings...2 of them. Should I use packing peanuts to prevent jossling? And should I poke holes through the box and styrofoam like the SYR directions say, or not? I'm hearing different answers to these questions and I need to make a decision....thanks!

We suggest making two small holes on two sides of the box. I typically use a philips screwdriver and make 1/4" holes. The heat pack uses oxygen to create the heat.

And yes I would use a heat pack. In these temps, the heat pack is not going to make the box HOT, it is going to keep it temperate. The box interior temp probably won't exceed 65F with the heat pack in it, but it will get much colder without it. We have done lots of tests and experiments with winter shipping and heat packs, they work very well.

You can use packing peanuts, but crumpled newspaper works very well, it is easily accessible, and it doesn't get everywhere when unpacking the box. Newspaper also absorbs liquids in case the animal "liquids" up the box : )

[guidofatherof5]

Marnie,
Your original thread is still alive. I had Stefan move the discussion between Richard and Tyler to this new thread. Here is your thread.

http://www.thamnophis.com/forum/gene...tml#post234577

[MCwyo]

Don't worry about it. You're in Wyoming. I was merely pointing out that OR and WA has always had laws on the books stating that it's illegal to collect / keep native wildlife including their captive descendants. And being how those are the only two states where they can be found, someone had to break the law at some point or nobody would have them. Not that WA cares anyway. When it comes to garter snakes, they don't give a damn about enforcing it. There's been a couple of times that they knew I had them. They didn't give a damn. They have better things to do than go after people who keep a few garter snakes. But that wasn't my point.

My point was that nobody would have them, anywhere, if someone hadn't bent the rules at some point. So, if you're keeping them, selling/breeding, whatever, you're benefiting from those bent rules. All the while preaching about following the rules. I don't see these same people refusing to keep or buy those species so they are just hypocrites whether it was them that broke the law or not because they are creating the demand. I think that perhaps if SYR wasn't so damn ridiculously high on the price, they could eliminate the need to use other channels altogether.

You have nothing to worry about. There's no law in Wyoming that says you can't have them. Even if there was, I'm sure they have better things to worry about.

Are. You. Kidding. Me. Yes I am going to worry about it if I have poached snakes sitting in my living room!

I am currently trying to contact both OR and WA game & fish to find out the exact laws/regulations regaurding these two species. I want to hear it from them.

I am so mad at myself. I was an idiot not to check laws before hand. That mistake will not happen again.

[twgrosmick]

Are. You. Kidding. Me. Yes I am going to worry about it if I have poached snakes sitting in my living room!

I am currently trying to contact both OR and WA game & fish to find out the exact laws/regulations regaurding these two species. I want to hear it from them.

I am so mad at myself. I was an idiot not to check laws before hand. That mistake will not happen again.

Your gonna be fine. They are only regulated in states where they are native and even then most of the time you are able to get a permit. You will be fine :-)

[ConcinusMan]

Are. You. Kidding. Me. Yes I am going to worry about it if I have poached snakes sitting in my living room!

You don't. And the only thing you have to worry about is whether or not it's legal to keep a species in your state, county, city, etc. but that goes without saying.

Which reminds me. Since this is a shipping discussion...

I really should start checking the destination state's laws when I ship. The shipper is also legally responsible if it's illegal in your state to keep certain species. This is why Scott won't ship native CA species to CA. In that state it's only legal to keep WC native garters. Importing them from out of state is illegal. So is breeding them in captivity, and so is releasing them once they've been in captivity. So you see, in that state the only legal garter is one that is not native or one that was WC in the state. Basically, you can't have a CA red sided garter there unless you take it from the wild. Crazy huh?

[twgrosmick]

I really should start checking the destination state's laws when I ship. The shipper is also legally responsible if it's illegal in your state to keep certain species. This is why Scott won't ship native CA species to CA. In that state it's only legal to keep WC native garters. Importing them from out of state is illegal. So is breeding them in captivity, and so is releasing them once they've been in captivity. So you see, in that state the only legal garter is one that is not native or one that was WC in the state. Basically, you can't have a CA red sided garter there unless you take it from the wild. Crazy huh?

Agreed. Most of the time though the laws allow albinos or any other morphs. Very true though but also as you said, they have bigger fish to fry with people keeping alligators and hots, that while I don't recommend it because the consequences are a pretty hefty fine, you don't really have much to worry about. Luckily in MD, all I have to do is pay $25 for a permit and I can keep, breed, and sell garters. Nice point though Richard.

[MCwyo]

I don't care if it's not probable that my G & F will give me a hard time over it. Harvesting species against the law is NOT something I want any part of.

I checked and double checked my own state laws to make sure I could keep vagrans harvested from the wild. I checked the laws to make sure I could import live garter snakes into WY from other states before buying the concinnus. I completely screwed up in not checking the laws where the snakes were comming from.

I am taking this to PM now because it dose not belong in this thread- other than the fact that I have also learned that these snakes were shipped illegally - and I apologize, but it was brought up in this thread that the snakes I have were taken against the law. I will probably be opening a new thread at some point regaurding poaching.